Re-painting the BellBoy

[BellBoyBob]

Hi All:
A long time since I have added to this forum. I hope everyone is doing well and enjoying the new year so far...
I am going to re paint the 1960 BellBoy404 because I am basically disgusted with my job the first time around using Pettit Easypoxy one-part epoxy topside paint. I plan to strip ALL of the hardware off including engine, windows, cleats - everything. Then I will sand down the Pettit until all of my numerous flaws are eradicated.
At this point, I am unsure of what to do. I spoke to a professional marine painter who thought the Petit was not the ideal choice because, as a one part urethane, it did not cure completely and remained "soft", was prone to deterioration and needed to be re-done in three years. He thought the two part Interlux Perfection paint was much better and provided a more durable glossy appearance. Both of these can be applied by rolling and tipping. He said he has had nice results using Dupont Nason paint sprayed on. I f I go with the Interlux or the Nason, I will have to re-prime the top side as one part and two part urethane are not chemically compatible. I have a compressor and a gravity feed sprayer, respirator and painting suits. I though I might try spraying the Nason on the hatch and helm again to see how my technique is. I have sprayed a lot of giant scale R/C models so I think I know a little about how to do it. OR, I can prime and sand the boat and tow it over to the guy at Canandaigua Lake and let HIM paint it for a few hundred dollars. I have been asked to show the boat in a couple of the big antique boat shows out here in NY ( Clayton and Skanneateles are national shows) The BellBoy turns 50 year old this year!! I would like to bring the boy all the way to show room condition. I need some advice from you guys. What painting techniques have you found to be really satisfactory?

Thanks VERY much!

Bob

[Marvelous]

hi Bob,
Has been a long time. I used automotive paint with a clear coat and it has been perfect so far. Expensive paint though.

[Steve_Kiesel]

It has been awhile Bob. Glad your back, I always enjoy your posts. I just painted my Seafair, see the pictures a couple posts down. Actually Ross (Yardman) sprayed it for me. We used two part automotive paint, no clear coat. It is expensive, but will last forever with a little care.

I practiced tip and roll on the hatch cover. Turned out okay. But I don't have any place inside to paint. Ross is all setup with a paint booth in his shop, so I went that route. Good luck with whatever way you decide to go Bob.

[Marty Loken (Norseboater)]

Painting the Bell Boy

Bob -

We used Interlux Perfection on John DeLanoy's 16 Bell Boy express and got good results. If you decide to go that route, be sure to check the tech-spec sheets for Perfection on the Interlux website, because the instructions that come with the paint are inadequate. (Online, you get better details on how to mix the paint with reducer and catalyst...a critical formula that varies with air temperature and other factors.)

We sprayed Perfection, but used the roll-and-tip method and Sterling two-part paint with Bruce Drake's 21 Bell Boy express.

See photos below: the green boat is John DeLanoy's 16 express; the red and white 21-footer is Bruce Drake's.

Whatever you use, I'm sure your boat will be beautiful!

- Marty

[Yardman]

Bob, You are on the right track in removing as much of the single part paint,as possible before refinishing. Sometimes the edges left behind can swell or shrink up. A catalyzed primer will help cover this and hold the new paint to the old. I have used the Nason line of paint quite a bit and been happy with it. I've never tried to roll and tip with it but I have brushed some in small spots with some success. Not really recommended though.
The two part Interlux will roll and tip nicely. We used to have one guy rolling ahead of another painter coming along behind tipping out the roller marks on big panels. As Marty said all the paints are sensitive to temperature changes and can be controlled with different speed reducers, accelerators and retarders.
Of course, with what ever method you chose being out of the weather, dew and dust helps lots! I think you will see quite a difference in performance with the two-part paint. - Ross

[Tim_Mattson]

Hey Bob,
The Perfection 2 part stuff ,with some accelerator to make it kick off will work even in the driveway and at the dock.
No bugs this time of year but Dew can spoil a final coat.A heater inside a hull can really make paint kick nice,pre-heating a half day is worth it.
The Spraying method I have done with the Nason 2 part which does use the clear coat over the color base.This clear is thick enough to power buff with a machine which may score more points in shows if that`s the true goal.
I kinda like having people talk of "how good you shot it" ,letting them go on awhile ,then seeing their jaw drop when they hear it was rolled and tipped.
They`d really be surprised to see my Blu tarped paint booth....a wetted ground and a few banks of lights go a long ways,but the booth always helps.
The perfection does highlight very minor flaws and doesn`t build up like the car paint and primers do.
It is really nice to wetsand it with 320 in between coats and it doesn`t load up the wetpaper at all.Once dried ,it stands up to acetone and gasoline very well.It also can be taped with 3M Delicate surface tape the same day painted and non-skid applied in a second coat....usually changes the color,so a 3rd coat to get it even is needed.
Thw Car paints can be tipped but a high end bruch usually is a must,like the Ox`n Ear Hair Brush (say that 3 times fast...) or or the super dense Foam brushes for epoxy.
The "Rolls Royce White Porcillin" by Nason I used on my Johnson 70hp is good down to 20`of depth I can tell you......
TimM

[BellBoyBob]

Thanks, everyone, very much for the thoughtful responses. I am leaning toward a full removal of the Pettit bright red, well into the Pettit primer that is underneath and starting over with Interlux Perfection 2 part Rochelle Red as the finish coat preceeded by Interlux Epoxy Prime coat. With all the prep work - removing the engine again and the cabin windows, the sanding and priming - it just makes no sense to finish the work off with a single part paint, right? I will roll the primer with two coats, sanding inbetween and probably use three coats of the top coat, rolling and tipping. I will probably pull the boat outside into the driveway on a warm, calm sunny day for the application of the various coats.
I do have one question though: Since I am doing this alone, how would you all recommend that I proceed with rolling and tipping? What is meant, exactly, by "keeping a wet edge"? Does this mean I do a small section of rolling and tipping, then move on to the next section while the "edge" of my first section is still wet and has not yet flashed, thus painting into wet paint from one section to the next? That implies that I cannot stop rolling and tipping the topside once I have begun until the entire top has been painted? If that is what it means, I think I will need to find a buddy!

Thanks, Bob

[Marty Loken (Norseboater)]

Find a Buddy

Bob -

When you're rolling and tipping, you'll either need to grow a few extra arms or find a buddy to help, since with most paints you want the rolled-on product to be tipped immediately...and you want to keep moving...so it's much easier with a friend. You want the paint to flow smoothly off of the brush when you're tipping; if any amount of time elapses between rolling and tipping, the brush will feel like it's dragging too hard through the paint--as though the paint is already drying in front of you--hence "losing the wet edge."

If you do a bit of online research, you'll find some good articles on the roll-and-tip process.

Whichever two-part product you choose, be sure to wear an organic-vapors mask. If working with a buddy you'll be able to go clear around the boat in one pass. (Start at a transom corner and circumnavigate, making sure you have a clear plan for who's moving the ladders and lights, etc. Sometimes it's handy to have a third person around, just for that purpose, so that the painters don't have to stop for anything.)

Good luck, and have fun...

- Marty

[BellBoyBob]

Marty -
If I am rolling and tipping (and not spraying) Perfection outdoors, do I need a respirator? I have one but I thought the real danger was inhalation of mist while spraying...
Bob

[Tim_Mattson]

Bob,
I`m usually alone doing this,and have a few tricks I`ve had luck with.
I am Right-handed as most and going clockwise around the hull "feels right" to the body.A couple layers of gloves are good so you can peel away when goobered up.
I`ve learned to hold two Tipping brushes in one free hand,switching from the 4`` as needed,but the 4``always used for the big areas.
Starting at the rear corner,it is possible to move down the portside in
12`` squares ,BUT you can double back and do 2 squares at the transom for every 4-8 squares on the side.You can even do "mini-squares" so you don`t linger too often.
You tip going back into the rolled paint each square.The brush wil squeek when you hit dried paint,usually if you lost track of the stopping point where you should be lifting the brush as you reach the last tipped square.Staggering helps keep track,split the side into two rows,3 if it is taller like in the bow.
You can stop at the motor bolt holes a little longer as the transom brackets always hide any overlap shadows,basically stacked up paint.
Now the dash gets trickier,you basically get to "paint yourself out of a room".Motor control and steering helm are a good place to leave your edge alone while you cover the dash and window area.
Reaching across the deck always makes one wish they had extendable arms.Splashwells are good places to practice OR leave as an escape route out of the inside.
My painting guru recomends having a case of foam brushes so you can toss the things away if they chunk up.
I admit to having a vat of reducer ready to hold them so they can be wrung out and then re-used for priming or touch-up jobs.....$3-4 bucks racks up quickly.
My buddy also taught me to avoid sanding between the first couple coats until you got some material built up.A thin "binder/base coat" to start,then two before sanding with 320 usually will leave more primer on the boat than on the sandpaper.You must re-apply within the times given in the data sheet.
Tried to upload pics of Rochelle Red I did on the Pac Mariner but our computer has been downgraded since our DSL "upgrade" and we lost all our pics and photo editing programs.
Use 2 part primer even if using one part paint so you can simply acetone wipe away the cheap stuff when re-doing it .....uhh next time?
TimM
PS Some white will really "set off" the red by the way,a white splashwell can break up the red blob and highlights any red on a motor....any extra red may make a nice stripe which ties it all together.You got nicer chrome than any of my hulls so all red may work for you.

[Steve_Kiesel]

A lot of good tips and tricks there.

Bob, the other thing I did when test painting the hatch cover, was I used the buffer on it to remove any brush strokes left behind. I will have to say, after buffing it out, it really looked pretty good.

I started with a very fine grit compound running the buffer as slow as it would go. Then moved up to a polishing compound followed by wax.

[Mark_Denis]

Hi Bob, good to hear from you again!

Your plan to sand the one part paint and apply the 2 part epoxy is a good one. This will help eliminate any paint incompatibility issues when you apply the new topcoat. Whichever method you choose for the painting make sure you make a few practice runs first. Take some scrap wood or cardboard and get a feel for it before going crazy on the boat.

If you feel good about it after practicing then go for it! If you're not sure, you may want to consider having the pro spray it. A few hundred bucks is not a bad deal to guarantee you get the nice finish you're looking for.

Hope this helps!

[BellBoyBob]

Everything everyone has been saying in reply to this thread has helped! THANK YOU!! I love this forum!!

I just bought a Porter Cable orbital sander to begin the job of removing my mess. But, this time, I will be taking every piece of hardware off the hull in order to get the job done right. This includes the BellBoy emblems themselves. They are "spiked" on to the side of the hull through the fiberglass walls and secured to a wood block on the other side. I plan to carefully chisel the the backer board off and tap the emblems out from the inside. Once out, I am sending them to a forger on the east coast to finally create the cast for the "new" block font BellBoy emblems for my friend, BellBoyJohn and anyone else who has a need for them.

I will remove the rub rail, the cabin windows cleats and all other hardware (no shortcuts!) so I have only the fiberglass topside to deal with. The windows will be re-conditioned and polished (the plastic originals are still in good shape) The side sliding windows are made of glass so they will be easy to clean and polish. The frames will be cleaned of old paint and polished.

The other large project will be to finally change out the original fuel tanks. They are, as was typical in express type hulls, gunwale tanks that taper like a wedge. There are no tanks currently on the market that fit the exact sizing I need so I decided on the Moeller under deck type tank. These will be fitted into the pedestal boxes (see photo) that my seats are mounted on. There are shapes of new tanks (with sensors) that are box-like and I will simply build the new pedestal boxes around them. The challenge will be to find suitable filler hose that is flexible enough to go from the gas caps to the tank fittings in a rather circuitous route! Any ideas there? My original tanks are simply impossible to thoroughly clean because they are compartmentalized. Also the sender poles I installed last summer keep jamming as the float descends to the narrow bottom of the tank. Time for a re-do!

I am determined to change my impatient mindset to a more methodical one because I really want the job to go well this time. I plan to roll and tip the Perfection 2-part after applying 2 coats of Primekote and tons of sanding. I will enlist the help of my boat owner neighbor to either do the rolling or the tipping, plan a definite route ahead of time and a good " end seam" place where the two edges of paint will meet. I realize now that once you begin rolling and tipping, you can't stop until the area is completely painted...Any ideas on where that seam should be on my kind of boat??

Thanks, as always,

Bob

[Tim McCrain]

Bob,

My 404 Sedan Convertible could use a set of emblems when you get to that point, give us a shout here when you're ordering, would ya?

Tim

I think Marty already has these emblems made. Marty? I need some also. Barry