Another Bellboy 21

[Helmar]

Thanks on the comments.

The 19 Bell Boy is a customers boat that I was working on and I will attach a photo of what I am on now.
The floor is 1/2", super sealed on both sides, double on the edges and once the holes were drilled out, I just took a little foam out of the hole and used expoxy resin and epoxied the plugs back into the holes.
Once covered up with glass cloth after foaming and plugging the holes, NO movement at all, solid as a rock to walk on.

I do remember once we did the tare down was the saddle tanks did have a cross over line under the floor.
If your going to do the cross over, might leave yourself some room and plumb that in before you foam.

For the most part, I do wiring and would rather do just complete wiring jobs and rewiring repairs.

[Guest]

Today was more preparation and cleanup. I've removed all the glass around where the four cockpit frames were, scraped away the accumulated gunk (most of it anyway), and vacuumed about a dozen times. Two interesting things I found:
1) There is a lot more resin than glass in the stringers. Around the keel there is a pool of what looks like an eight to a quarter-inch of resin on top of the glass, and it has numerous stress cracks. (photo 1) There should be glass on top connecting everything, and there isn't. So I need at least two layers from the bottom of the left stringer to the bottom of the right stringer, and two layers along the center. That will stiffen it all up.
2) The stringers look like one layer of mat and one layer of cloth. It looks like a layup of mat was made first, cut to length, and set in place. Then a layer of cloth was laid across that.But in a number of places, only the mat was connected to the cloth! (photo 2) So they were disconnected, structurally speaking.

Marty said this boat was probably abandoned in the 60's. I've wondered why someone would abandon a boat that new. Now I think I know. The hull planing surface must have been very flexible. Maybe enough to cause erratic handling, and certainly would have been scary in a chop.

I have a lot of fiberglass work to do- I hope I can get a lot of it done tomorrow. I used some foam-in-can to foam all the places where reinforcement is needed. When it hardens I can sculpt it to shape.

[Helmar]

I think I understand that your going to connect the stringers (very good choice) and then Notch the cross frames to lay down over the.

I only had one cross frame to replace and just ran a string forward and aft to make sure the new frame lined up level with the others. Once you know the front frame hight at the bulkhead and splashwell bulkhead, the ones in the middle should be easy to level..

I changed the whole rear of the boat as you could see as there was Way too much wasted space.

Still looking good. :Underconstruction1:

[Tim McCrain]

Ed,

It's really great to see you bringing her back to life, several of us (including me) were sorely tempted by that boat when it was available. That's a beautiful design and I'm looking forward to seeing her in the water.

Thanks for posting the progress reports, not only is it fun for us to keep track of your progress but it's great info to have here for others that follow.

Tim

[Guest]

No new photos today. It doesn't look much different from yesterday's photo, but I shaved down the foam and I've glassed the bottom with about 100 yards of 4 and 6 inch tape. The stringers are now four plies plus the mat, and continuous. The false keel is now tied into the stringers, and all the breaks are patched. I'm pretty sure that when the epoxy cures this will be the best-reinforced Bellboy 21 ever. There are a few bits of the original bottom left but not many.

But I'm burned out for this weekend. I have some other things to do, so I don't expect to do any more work for a couple of days.

[Guest]

Nothing much to report today. I'm been investigating the jigsaw puzzle that is the interior. I can't glass in the cockpit frames and floor until I replace the frame at the cabin bulkhead. I don't want to cut the bulkhead apart because that's my template. Well, it's in two pieces, so they are my templates. It appears that the interior cabinetry was assembled in place. It was glassed in with the lightest fabric I've ever seen. I cut the cabinets free with one slice of my pocket knife. I'm going to have to take the cabinetry down to individual panels, but I'll mark them and save them all. I like the original cabinet design and I intend to reproduce it. Once that's out I should be able to maneuver the bulkheads out. I have commitments the next couple evenings, so I might not get much done until the weekend.

The ceiliing reinforcement is in good shape, fortunately. It's a grid structure. (see photo 1. Sorry it's underexposed.) I'll add some glass, but that's all. The cabin frames and stringers also look good, as far as I can see. Floor isn't really wood any more, just splinters holding hands. The plywood lining the sides of the house is a disaster. See photo 2. It looks straight, so with a little luck it won't be too difficult to replace.

[Helmar]

Nothing much to report today. I'm been investigating the jigsaw puzzle that is the interior. I can't glass in the cockpit frames and floor until I replace the frame at the cabin bulkhead. I don't want to cut the bulkhead apart because that's my template. Well, it's in two pieces, so they are my templates. It appears that the interior cabinetry was assembled in place. It was glassed in with the lightest fabric I've ever seen. I cut the cabinets free with one slice of my pocket knife. I'm going to have to take the cabinetry down to individual panels, but I'll mark them and save them all. I like the original cabinet design and I intend to reproduce it. Once that's out I should be able to maneuver the bulkheads out. I have commitments the next couple evenings, so I might not get much done until the weekend.

The ceiliing reinforcement is in good shape, fortunately. It's a grid structure. (see photo 1. Sorry it's underexposed.) I'll add some glass, but that's all. The cabin frames and stringers also look good, as far as I can see. Floor isn't really wood any more, just splinters holding hands. The plywood lining the sides of the house is a disaster. See photo 2. It looks straight, so with a little luck it won't be too difficult to replace.

just splinters holding hands, good one

Does that boat have all the plastic moldings that go around the cabin windows ?? I see you holding one away from the side of the boat.
Yep, that is what they screw down too so that is a quick fix.

Another thing I would do is when I am putting a piece of wood up against the side, I would mix up the epoxy, add a little silica to thicken it up and then paste the cabin sides of the wood with the epoxy, hold it into place and if not able to clamp though the window, I would have the hot glue gun ready to go.
Press the replacement wood against the sides and hot glue in several places and hold until it cools..

Something to think about before you get into it too deep and that is what do you want to do with a cabin door.
The stock door would slide across the to the port side.
If that bulkhead is in ok shape or even if its not, now would be the time to widen that opening up a tad if you like.

We also did one of the boats were we put the slider in the Inside of the cabin which was nice...

[Guest]

I haven't held all the fiberglass liners up to check, but I have most at least. I think there's one small piece missing. Good suggestion about the hot melt glue- thanks. I can put a lot of clamps around the windows, but there are never enough. I do think leaving a sliding door is better than folding or hinged, and making it wider is an even better idea. (I wonder if it's possible to have the door wide enough that I could get the cabinets in already assembled? That would be nice.) I have to meditate on inside-vs-outside doors. Because of the cabinetry inside mine will probably stay outside. But that's not a considered decision.

[Helmar]

Lets see.
Port and starboard pieces cover the side windows up to the cabin front windows were it should have been two upper pieces and two lower pieces and one in the middle on the post between the front windows.
Am I right

[Guest]

You have of course the correct layout. The center panel was under some stuff. I had a little time this evening, so I removed the port side cabinet (in four large pieces. Then I got the port bulkhead out. The dashboard plywood is not in great shape but should be salvageable. I also have the original Wilcox & Crittenden toilet, the fiberglass countertop, and the stainless steel tray that held the stove. Alcohol, I'm sure. That's all in surprisingly good shape.

The cabinets aren't salvageable, but they will make excellent templates.

Here's what the interior looks like today. Progress, albeit slow.

[Helmar]

On the starboard side up towards the bunk were you see that stainless tray, look under it and see if that is insulated.....I think the one I tore out turned out being a crude Ice Box.

I looked at some project that had Large pieces that looked like they are created, installed, then they put the Cabin top down onto the hull.
With that bulkhead out, you should be able to create your cabinets and just install them.
Of course, you will find that anything on the port side, reversed, will not fit on the starboard. Nothing on right angles and Everything had to be custom fit. I pretty much had to frame up everything and build it In the boat.

To save at least a zillion trips up and down, in and out of the boat, I left the rear splashwell to last. Short step ladder and over the transom and in I went :Underconstruction1:

[TheBronze]

Making good progress!

Man, I wish I could "leave" my splashwell out! Getting in and out is a pain, even with a ladder. I remember getting up into the other 21 when Marty was just about finished with her. It was SO huge I knew it was too much boat for my side yard and for ease of launch.

[Guest]

Got the cabin cleaned out today. I was able to save all the important bits- not to be used but as templates. Picture 1 is was it looks like after removing a amazing amount of miscellaneous wood pieces, old copper tubing, cabinets, splinters, hoses, hardware, and paint chips. Ihe post in the center of the photo is a 2x6. I like the idea of supporting the roof while the bulkheads are out.

A few things apparent in this picture. For some reason they eliminated two stringers in the first cabin bay port side. Why? That bothers me. More later.

Helmar- you were right. The starboard cabinet, forward compartment is a cooler. I've seen enough to be completely puzzled about the construction methods. Did they build this expecting it to fall apart in ten years? Was this boat some kind of experiment in how fast and cheap they could go? Rhetorical questions, of course. What's clear is that the designers thought of this as a serious cruising boat, with a small but complete galley and head and reasonably comfortable sleeping for two people. But the construction is shoddy, and often shoddy in silly ways.

You can see in the first and second pictures that the ends of several frames aren't protected in any way. That's common in this boat. Amazingly they're still pretty solid. Probably have virtually full strength.That's just luck. On the left, the first (aft) hose is the toilet outlet, and the pipe coming out of the hull straight up is the inlet. I will probably keep that, if I can get the parts to rebuild it The second (forward) hose is for the sink outlet.

Also in the second picture you can see two broken stringers. This had to have happened in service. The broken stringers in the cockpit area were almost certainly damaged after the floor was removed. I believe I broke one of them- they were pretty fragile. But these two were under the floor and underneath the cabinet.

In the third picture you can see how again the stringers again aren't structurally tied to the frames or the stringer in the next bay. What were they thinking? In picture 4 you can see how the stringers zig-zag Not too much, but it shows the care they took.

Finally let me call your attention to the bulkhead, visible in picture 1 and most apparent in photo 5. Now when I got the floor out, the area under the forward bay was damp. It must have gotten a lot of water at some time, because it's been drying out under a tarp for at least a month. I wasn't sure what to do with that area. The advertisements make it clear that was a flotation chamber. Kind of strange to have a little flotation there and nowhere else, but some flotation is always better than none.

The forward edge of the bunk supports tied into that with about ten wood screws. I thumped on it, and it rang like a drum. The top and side flex like a diaphragm. After thinking about it cut an access hole, like 5 x 8 inches. I reached, and it was very damp. I pulled out handfuls of layer wet paper, and a board about 1"x1"x10, soaking wet. Bellboy obviously put in a couple pieces of wood for the corners, glued some carboard over that, and laid the glass on the cardboard. I can see two holes drilled through the bottom of the hull, hull. One an inch or two on each side of the centerline, a bit aft the middle of the chamber. Why would anyone drill holes there? Makes no sense when it's in the water, and that's the wrong place to drain when it's out of the water.. I think I'm going to make this into storage. With the floor foamed I don't need this as a flotation chamber.

One last thing- in picture 1, on the right side of the false keel, about a foot aft of the base of the 2x6 was a blob of... something. I started scraping it, and it was about a quarter-cup of uncured resin! Did someone screw up the mix? Maybe some really nasty solvent got spilled there? I scraped until everything was hard.

I'm attempting to form two more stringers, using one of the cockpit stringers as a form. I laid down:
- a layer of plastic kitchen wrap as a mold release.
- Two layers of 6 oz cloth 9x24, saturated with epoxy.
- Two more layers of plastic wrap.(That way even if the glass sticks to it a bit I can still separate the layups)
- Two more layers of cloth.

With those and some more fiberglass work I can make the stringers strong and rigid from the stern to the frame aft-of-center in the cabin. If I reinforce the remaining stringers, tie them solidly to the frames, and reinforce and protect the frames I should have a solid rigid structure.

More to come.

[Guest]

Nothing particularly photogenic today. Had several non-boat items to handle. All I did was clean up the area and do the stringers. Put in the two I laid up yesterday- that seems to have worked surprisingly well, with one catch- I had no good way to hold them down. So I put some more plastic wrap on the layup when it was in place, then I emptied one of my toolboxes on top. It seems to have been enough weight to force the ears down and maintain contact. We'll see tomorrow how it looks. Then I reinforced the other four stringers. So two new and four reinforced, and we' re in pretty good shape up to the third stringer from the front. I haven't done anything with the front three stringers yet. I want them to dry out more first.

I had been planning to complete the cockpit first, but I think I'm going to change my sequence a bit. Instead I think I'll get the cockpit frames final-trimmed and glassed into position, then focus on the cabin. I've got all the old cabinetry in the driveway, and some of it might dissolve in a good rain.

That's all for this weekend.

[Helmar]

Got the cabin cleaned out today. I was able to save all the important bits- not to be used but as templates. Picture 1 is was it looks like after removing a amazing amount of miscellaneous wood pieces, old copper tubing, cabinets, splinters, hoses, hardware, and paint chips. Ihe post in the center of the photo is a 2x6. I like the idea of supporting the roof while the bulkheads are out.

A few things apparent in this picture. For some reason they eliminated two stringers in the first cabin bay port side. Why? That bothers me. More later.

Helmar- you were right. The starboard cabinet, forward compartment is a cooler. I've seen enough to be completely puzzled about the construction methods. Did they build this expecting it to fall apart in ten years? Was this boat some kind of experiment in how fast and cheap they could go? Rhetorical questions, of course. What's clear is that the designers thought of this as a serious cruising boat, with a small but complete galley and head and reasonably comfortable sleeping for two people. But the construction is shoddy, and often shoddy in silly ways.

You can see in the first and second pictures that the ends of several frames aren't protected in any way. That's common in this boat. Amazingly they're still pretty solid. Probably have virtually full strength.That's just luck. On the left, the first (aft) hose is the toilet outlet, and the pipe coming out of the hull straight up is the inlet. I will probably keep that, if I can get the parts to rebuild it The second (forward) hose is for the sink outlet.

Also in the second picture you can see two broken stringers. This had to have happened in service. The broken stringers in the cockpit area were almost certainly damaged after the floor was removed. I believe I broke one of them- they were pretty fragile. But these two were under the floor and underneath the cabinet.

In the third picture you can see how again the stringers again aren't structurally tied to the frames or the stringer in the next bay. What were they thinking? In picture 4 you can see how the stringers zig-zag Not too much, but it shows the care they took.

Finally let me call your attention to the bulkhead, visible in picture 1 and most apparent in photo 5. Now when I got the floor out, the area under the forward bay was damp. It must have gotten a lot of water at some time, because it's been drying out under a tarp for at least a month. I wasn't sure what to do with that area. The advertisements make it clear that was a flotation chamber. Kind of strange to have a little flotation there and nowhere else, but some flotation is always better than none.

The forward edge of the bunk supports tied into that with about ten wood screws. I thumped on it, and it rang like a drum. The top and side flex like a diaphragm. After thinking about it cut an access hole, like 5 x 8 inches. I reached, and it was very damp. I pulled out handfuls of layer wet paper, and a board about 1"x1"x10, soaking wet. Bellboy obviously put in a couple pieces of wood for the corners, glued some carboard over that, and laid the glass on the cardboard. I can see two holes drilled through the bottom of the hull, hull. One an inch or two on each side of the centerline, a bit aft the middle of the chamber. Why would anyone drill holes there? Makes no sense when it's in the water, and that's the wrong place to drain when it's out of the water.. I think I'm going to make this into storage. With the floor foamed I don't need this as a flotation chamber.

One last thing- in picture 1, on the right side of the false keel, about a foot aft of the base of the 2x6 was a blob of... something. I started scraping it, and it was about a quarter-cup of uncured resin! Did someone screw up the mix? Maybe some really nasty solvent got spilled there? I scraped until everything was hard.

I'm attempting to form two more stringers, using one of the cockpit stringers as a form. I laid down:
- a layer of plastic kitchen wrap as a mold release.
- Two layers of 6 oz cloth 9x24, saturated with epoxy.
- Two more layers of plastic wrap.(That way even if the glass sticks to it a bit I can still separate the layups)
- Two more layers of cloth.

With those and some more fiberglass work I can make the stringers strong and rigid from the stern to the frame aft-of-center in the cabin. If I reinforce the remaining stringers, tie them solidly to the frames, and reinforce and protect the frames I should have a solid rigid structure.

More to come.

That front box right in the front of the bow is a air box.
Its just for flotation.
because the boat was foamed, I took that front box and made a chain locker out of it.
I cut the top out and framed it up for a lid to cover the anchor and chain.

Did that still have the water tank up under the deck, in the bow ?