Skagit 20 - Alaskan Bulkhead

[Skagit Hideaway]

Cont. from New Members - Skagit Hideaway:

Here I'll be posting updates and pictures on this Skagit 20 project. So far - the hull/cabin has been completely gutted - all wood removed. The hull and deck separated and a new rub rail tab epoxy-sandwiched between what was left of the original upper/lower halves. No plasic rivets - biaxial on the inside.

What's planned:

I just put in a new, 2" wood core (curved) transom (with new stringer ends) which I like a lot, but now I think I'm going to fill in the cut-out and put an extended bouyancy bracket/platform on the back for twin outboards (dreaming of twin E-Tec 90's) and so the dog can get in and out of the water. That will give us more cockpit space too.

Twin, 27 gal, aluminum fuel tanks (saddle) - diesel heater/window defogger - cabin insulation - full electronics - hot plate and sink in the rear of the pilot house (Alaskan Bulkhead) - head up front in the cuddy.........

In light of the group discussion concerning the hard ride the Skagit has, the idea of a keel/central hull area modification to increase the amount of vee a bit comes to mind. I know that in some cases, adding a box keel solves the rough ride/stability problem. I'm thinking of something similar, but more streamline - adding say, 2" depth to the keel and then tapering the hull, 6" on either side, to the hight of the original keel - full length. Any thoughts/experienced out there with that?

[Bflaherty]

Wow! you are quite ambitious.

I am a firm believer in the "run what you brung" menthodology so I would suggest you get the boat in the water and experience the "skagit ride" for yourself before you start heavily modifying the bottom. I have read a lot of articles about vintage raceboat guys trying to modify older boats with modern bottom structures and they all tend to result in disaster (terrible handling, capsizing, bow steer, etc...). If you are in the Northwest region you should come out to one of our gatherings and go for some rides, most of the active skagits are 17's (I think) but still similar ride characteristics.

[Skagit Hideaway]

Good idea, thanks. Don't think we can make the one at Lake Mason tomorrow though.....

[wetcoaster]

Never saw front cabin windows like that, what year is it, or have they been modded? They match the upper cabin well. Good idea to avoid bending plexi!

[Skagit Hideaway]

That is the original 1955/56 cuddy window style. I copied it in the upper cabin. The title says "1960", but that is an error.

Flex - I ruled out flex due to cabin weight since the cracks were also present in the aft half of the deck.

[bruceb]

Hi, and welcome to the club/group !
Intrigued by the scope of your project, and love to see the life being breathed back into a 55/56
built boat. These are extremely solid in the build of the hull materials and stringers. Like the look of how the upper windshield is working with the rest of the boat. Compliments the package, overall. Have recently been doing research on the weight of the boats as stated by the factory and the 55/56/57 design is listed as 45 lbs (1025lbs) heavier than 58(980lbs). 1959 and later is another story, as the factory sought to lessen the weight even more, but my chart numbers show increases in 59, 60 and 61.
I first came across your boat 11 years ago in Renton, where the owners referred to it as a Bayliner Skagit.
So my guess was that they had named it because it had the Bayliner windshield mounted on top, but ,no, the family member assured me that it was a Skagit model, built by Bayliner in Arlington. Any attempts on my part to re-adjust history met a brick wall.... then it showed up in Tacoma ? for sale on CL and assume you were the lucky purchaser.
Have thought of the same idea of adding some V to the bottom, specifically a 14 Sportster I was restoring a few years back, and reality of time management came between me and the execution. Possible to do, and the materials available today, as well as some very detailed hull designs to view on the internet could make it a reality. I would defer to Brian's knowledge of "tried" projects as a starting/ending point. Very good to see other's projects outcome !!!!!
The act of riding in a 20' Skagit express of your year is the best experience to determine your course.
Also keeping in mind that the perception of your guests onboard is very much determined by your choice of speed and water conditions. I've seen some spend time and money to restore a boat only to find their
spouse doesn't like the boat, mainly because it's operated at excessive speeds for the riding qualities of the hull.
Adding weight at the bottom of your hull ( as in adding a V shape to the bottom) would be a welcome balance to the weight of the Alaskan bulkhead. The structure above adds a welcome fore/aft balance but brings the question of high center of gravity in relation to the basic weight of the hull and cabin. As you mentioned the twin etec 90s ( great choice), lots of weight, though, not because of transom structure as much as the reduction of freeboard at the stern.

Quite a bit to consider, she's looking very handsome !

Thanks , Bruceb

[Skagit Hideaway]

Thanks for your thoughts, Bruce. We purchased the boat in June, from a commercial fisherman in Sedro Wooley. It had been sitting there for a couple of years. We had no further info on where he got it. That is interesting about it's Tacoma history.

It does make sense to finish the project without making alterations to the keel/hull, in the absence of anyone elses successful experience in that regard. I'll keep researching the idea though, I'm sure.

The E-Tec 90's weigh 320lbs each. That would be a lot of weight on the back but I plan to build the offshore bracket with very light weight composite materials and enough area below the waterline, that it provides enough positive flotation to take care of that. With modern materials and good design, structural strength needn't be lacking. Then of course, weight distribution in the rest of the boat and trim have to be right.

Once the AB cabin framing/top are trimmed of all unnecessary mass (corners rounded, glass shell thinned, etc.) I don't expect it to add much more weight above the COG than a tall person standing up in the boat.....hopefully. We'll see Anyway, everything in boat building is a trade-off. Being able to stay warm and dry is worth something in this case.

[Bflaherty]

If you want to read a real "bottom mod" disaster, google "Gar Wood Obsession" the vintage raceboat shop has a several page history of this vintage gentlemen's racer that the owner tried, unsuccessfully, to modify the bottom to be a step hydro rather than traditional V-bow with flat stern... It's a good read!!

If you need any design assistence with the outboard bracket, let me know as I was the primary designer for all of Aluminum Chambered Boats brackets for 2007 and 2008 (fabricated from aluminum but I did everything from simple single outboards to twins with kicker and retractable dive ladder).

[Skagit Hideaway]

Brian,

Thanks for the info/link. What a beautiful boat! Great story and pictures. I suppose the first experiment I would do, were I to do one, would be to put a laminated cap on the existing keel that extended to the edge of the first groove (what do you call those?) on either side, making it broader and more rounded - like the Obsession's keel - more box keel-like.

Brackets: Thanks for the offer. You have the experience! Is there anything to the 1" extension/12" LOA general rule?

[Bflaherty]

George, (you've not posted a name, so I have dubbed you George until corrected)

The "1:12 rule" is a very broad generalization that Mercury made to cover almost any motor on just about any boat. If you are serious about getting the setup "perfect" then you would need to mount the more on the transom, make a few test runs with a water pressure gauge positioned roughly as far back as you intend to have the motor then measure its height when the pressure just starts to decrease... Obviously this is a lot of work and not really feasible with a boat in mid restoration. Also, your pressure points will change dramatically based on hull shape, HP, propellor shape/pitch, and even passenger load! Hence the invention of the jack plate...

At ACB we modeled our motor brackets to keep the cavitation plate on a 2:12 slope from the transom's bottom edge. The serious racing types will often follow more aggressive angles (like 4:12 or even as much as 4" up and only 2.5" back!) with a 20' Skagit I doubt you are going for speed records so I would stay in the 1-3" for every 12" setback.

[Skagit Hideaway]

There is always, SH, Skagit Hideaway*, or you can call me Lance.

*The word "Skagit" means, "Hide from the enemy." Apparantly, the Indians on WhidbeyIsland (Lower Skagits) were in the habit of running off to hide in the river delta when things got tense with their neighbors.

Thanks for the info.

[Skagit Hideaway]

reg. Box keel. I don't know what I'm thinking. LOL. The original Skagit 20 keel is a 2" wide/deep box keel, right? The Obsession racing boat is keel-less, which has high speed advantages, provided other criteria are optimal. Capping the Skagit keel would make it more a variable deadrise hull.

[bruceb]

Lance and Brian-
Fantastic discussion about the hull shape, ratio for slope to engine location, Gar Wood restoration.
The grooves in the hull bottom of the 20, 17, 16 Skagit had a Skagit marketing name of the Air-o Glide bottom. They were said to inject air under the hull to provide a smoother ride. Obviously they tended to give some extra stability to the direction/tracking of the hull. The unique shape of the Skagit chine out at the corner of the hull bottom allows a bite for the boat in cornering attitudes.
On 55-57 outboard boats, we've seen the keel run all the length of the hull bottom. However, the inboard boats had the keel fair/taper to the hull bottom 5'-6, where the shaft exits, forward of the stern. In 1958 the inboard hull mold was used on some outboard boats. We haven't been able to get the info from former employees as to whether they did it to improve cornering or if it allowed production increase. The inboard boats were built maybe at a ratio of one to twenty, as we've seen so few and mostly outboards.
I've ridden in outboard and inboard hulls with outboard power and think the cornering is a little more
smooth on the inboard hulls with outboard power. It's pretty subtle.
Great to have Brian's industry experience !
bruceb

[Skagit Hideaway]

Fascinating, Bruce. Good to learn that. How gradual was that keel depth reduction - over what distance?

Lance

[Skagit Hideaway]

....some interesting discussion/info here on keel reduction - http://www.thehulltruth.com/sportfis...-not-keel.html.