Skagit 20 - Alaskan Bulkhead

[Skagit Hideaway]

Tim,

Thanks for the info and encouragement.

From the brochure, the '56 20' curiser at 1025 lbs appears to be 25lbs lighter than the '55, somewhat heavier than the '58, 75lbs - 100lbs lighter than the 59, and ca. 300lbs lighter than the '60 and '61 models. I'm not sure where the differences lie, but according to that, the '56 is lighter than most of the 20 footers I've seen............in pictures. Ha. ha. This is my first.

I was figuring on lexan for the side windows, thanks. I got carried away cutting the window openings, initially. They are going to be a good deal smaller (vertically), so a lot less glass in the front. The new cabin/roof are trimmed of all excess weight wherever possible, so I don't think they will add that much more than the 300lb heavier '60/'61 hardtop models, if any. I'll know more after I weigh the thing.

The ca. 24" extension weighs ca. 150lbs - 175lbs, but adds ca. + 60lbs of floatation for each inch it is submerged. I plan on doing a semi-accurate hull measurment/weight analysis so I can figure where to put everything, down to the extra fish hooks. There is only going to be 2 in the boat most of the time. The extra length should make the boat steer straighter, handle better in turns, and handle chop a bit better, all of which mean better milage, to compensate the extra surface in the water - theoretically. We'll see.

......I've never owned a stock anything....

Lance

[McSkagit Tim Jones]

Okay, what do you think the hardtop weighs? I thing the added waterline length should make the boat come on plane easier and overall make the whole rig more efficient. There was also talk of a keel modification. This gets a bit trickier. On the Skagit 31 the keel is about three inches wide and gets deeper as you go aft. Above about 25 knots, the keel acts like a water ski and begins lifting the hull. Also the turn of the bilge, where the hull meets the keel has a very big radius. This also adds lift, but also makes for a very soft ride in the 15 knots and above range.

There are plenty of planing hull boats out there with handling issues. Some I'd consider dangerous above about 20 knots. There was a story written in Professional Boatbuilder some years back titled: Handling Issues in Planing Hulls (or something like that). It's common in many production hulls.

A friend of mine restored an 18 foot Reinell. Wood boat, originally a utilitarian skiff you might find at a fishing resort in the 1950s. He put a lot of work into it, sheathed the hull with CVG cedar, added a deck and windshield (frame of walnut). I found a 220 HP BMW I/O for him which he installed and decked over the engine compartment. Nice interior cushions.......put quite a bit of money into the boat.

On first test cruise he discovered the boat had a serious handling flaw. Above 20 knots, the bow would hit a wave and the boat would suddenly veer to starboard and the bow would dive. If you were standing, you'd be ejected from the boat. The guy was bummed, to say the least.

I suggested he add two strakes to each side of the bottom and extend them about 2/3 of the hull length. A tricky piece of wood working as the dead rise varied going aft. Long story, short, the strakes broke the hydraulic suction on the bow and problems solved. Boat could do 42 MPH with the 220 Beamer.

My two cents worth.......

Cheers,

Tim

[bruceb]

Lance-
I concur with Tim's assessment of all the weight and materials considerations. By installing the extension, you've improved the planing characteristics and the efficiency of the hull. As well as the cornering with the air glide bottom. The lower center of gravity helps counter the lower hull weight relative to the cabin structure. Kudos in the weight reduction of wood structure and use of lexan in side windows.
Also, the concerns of how the hull rides (nose high or low "bow steering") brings up the difference in your power train configuration. A modern outboard tilt trim feature can compensate, to a point, compared to a fixed inboard. Tim's example of added strakes might not be required in your final hull "tuning".
I can say in communicating with a Skagit 20 owner with a 90 Etec ( Scott McDade) and a 17 Skagit owner as well, that a standard 90 is more than adequate for a "stock config" boat. By putting 2 90's on your hull, it would more than compensate for your added ship's weight. Clearly your intention of having the redundancy of twins is a winner for the mission (s) the boat is intended. If you were to want a "money saving" exercise, twin 75s would still be impressive, and adequate planing for a single engine function, should one become disabled.
Chuck Carey's 17 Skagit Express restoration "Kalakala" with a 2011 90 etec.
The project's coming right along, very impressive ! Keep us up w/ pics !!!

[Skagit Hideaway]

Tim and Bruce,

Thanks very much for the feedback. Much appreciated.

Not sure what the Skagit 20 hard top weighs. The one that came on this boat (not original) was heavy - ca. 40lbs maybe. It was 3/8"+ thick in places. I liked the shape enough to keep it, so I added 24" to it's length and am in the process of thinning it (grinding) as much as possible and will add some Skagit-type ribs where support is needed. The cabin is 6 laminated, 2-1/2" wide x 1/2" thick plywood posts ("L" angle on the front and rear corners, "T" in the middle) with 1/4" thick plywood (laminated) walls on the sides and 1/2" on the front, to hold the windows. All the post corners/edges are beveled back to make them as light as possible. I'll just have to see how light I can make the roof and rear wall/door.

The keel modification was just "talk" at this point. We'll finish the boat with the original hull + extension (with tapered (reducing) keel and air-o-glide grooves), and see how it handles - strapped in with test helmet/crash cage/head-neck support/wet suit perhaps.

The 75hp E-tecs are a possiblility, but they are essentially the same motor (weigh the same - 310lbs) as the 90's. The 60's are the next smaller motor at ca. 250lbs, but there is the question if one would get the lengthened boat up on plane, with a little power left to deal with rough seas, or not. We could still go with a larger single and kicker as well. Have to see when we get there.

[Helmar]

I am really interested in how she is going to handle. I think she will take that modification and do just fine with it.
My 59 Skagit seems to be a little heavy in the butt as she has a cast iron Volvo B18 and one of the first Heavy Volvo Penta outdrives on it.
Fuel tanks are up by the cabin bulkhead.
When I got her she had some kind of early worm drive trim tabs on her that were not working.
Getting them to work Really changed how fast she comes up on plane.

With the extension also being a floatation device should help and I am really interested to hear how she does.

The ones I was not to sure about were the ones that had the stainless piping off the transom and the motor hanging out a extra 2 feet off the back. To me its like holding a gallon jug. Hold it with your arm extended and the weight shift was very noticeable.

You have solved that problem.
Some place I remember people saying that those hulls were only designed for a couple of maybe 35 OMC's on the back.
Some of the people that over powered (100 and 115hp) made them scary and porpoising. Like a barn door with a motor on the back.
Others that put all the weight on the rear, batteries, fuel, gear and then pour weight in the bow always made me wonder why? To me, it just meant the performance and fuel economy was compromised..

I had the rare opportunity to work at a shop that was rented from George Calkins. Calkins Craft and of course the famous Bartender boats.
I would listen to him anytime he was willing to share his engineering of his boats. Pretty smart cookie.

[bruceb]

Lance-
You may have seen this video, here for others to see these motors in action. The boat, a Haines Hunter comes in multiple lengths, models, so I have no reference to what these motors are pushing.It's a v hull....

www.youtube.com/watch?v=moK_3cC32AA

bruceb

[Helmar]

Lance-
You may have seen this video, here for others to see these motors in action. The boat, a Haines Hunter comes in multiple lengths, models, so I have no reference to what these motors are pushing.It's a v hull....

www.youtube.com/watch?v=moK_3cC32AA

bruceb

Hey Bruce. I kind of snuck a avatar picture up for you...If not ok, I can take it off.

[bruceb]

Joe-
Found a pic that shows the color of the boat, thanks !

[Helmar]

Joe-
Found a pic that shows the color of the boat, thanks !

Ah yes, much better picture, Sweet boat too !!!!

[GregJ]

Bruce, You were wondering what the appendage on the back of that ETech 90 was on the Kalakala. There's an identical one on the kicker. They are both quick disconnects so I am certain they are the connection points for connecting the kicker to the main engine so the kicker can be steered at the helm. I have a 1993 7.5 Rude that I am going to mount the same way and I have been trying to decide how to connect them. This looks good to me.

[Steve_Kiesel]

Greg, those are for the E Z Steer. Here's a tip on those. Before you buy the EZ Steer, mount your outboard and measure the distance between the leg's on both motors. The EZ Steer rod is adjustable, but they come in different lengths that adjust to different lengths. (Don't ask how I know this) Yup, another lesson learned the hard way. If buying used, have the seller measure the collapsed and expanded lengths to maker sure it fits your rig.

[Skagit Hideaway]

Starboard side corner almost ready for the foam core transom brace, which is more decorative than anything else. Soon I'll be extending the hull planing surface and as I understand it, the challenge there will be to insure that the extension is a perfectly straight and stable continuation of the straight/stable hull surface, and having sharp chine/transom edges - no "hook" or "rocker" to screw up handling.

[bruceb]

Lance-
Sure is looking beefy ! So, I'm guessing that most of those surfaces we're looking at, except for the starboard corner, are covered with structural cloth ? Sorry if I didn't study previous posts....
Very impressed with your progress in this cold weather. Nice work.
bruceb

[Skagit Hideaway]

Thanks Bruce,

Like normal transom construction, the final structural laminate skin is going to go on over the whole thing, after all the parts are glued/tabbed in, so no, the final skin is yet to come. With "fast" hardener and heat lamps, the stuff sets up nicely, even when it's snowing outside the tent. I keep the resin/hardener inside where it's warm and bring them out to the tent only to mix a batch.

I made a quick photo composite of what it should look like when finished. Not good enough to show here......but....there is something about the 3:1 length/beam ratio with twin motors that looks really cool, I think.

Lance

[McSkagit Tim Jones]

Not sure what you refer to as Alaskan Bulkhead? An Alaska Bulkhead is a bulkhead at the aft end of the fly bridge which essentially encloses it. Typically they a have hinged door, but my 23 Glasply came from the factory with an all glass Alaska Bulkhead. Tempered glass with a glass sliding door. That was the hot setup. It was a Volvo diesel I/O, so that bulkhead and door really cut down on the noise level. You could carry on a conversation without raising your voice....at cruise!

I had two latches to hold the door open. This in the event you got waked on the beam or were in some slop with seas on the beam......you didn't want that door opening or closing on its own. It was heavy and would slam with a bang if it got going with enough speed. Never did break it.

My two cents worth....