Dorsett Farallon Restoration Project/The Beginning

[timgoodwin]

This what she looks like as we speak. I will post more pictures after cleaning her up and then more after some advice on stripping her down for repair and restore. So, what do ya think? How about that Mercury 1000! I think she's a keeper overall and I will do everything in my power to get her back up and running.

[timgoodwin]

More Pics...

Here are more pics.

[Helmar]

This what she looks like as we speak. I will post more pictures after cleaning her up and then more after some advice on stripping her down for repair and restore. So, what do ya think? How about that Mercury 1000! I think she's a keeper overall and I will do everything in my power to get her back up and running.

Looks pretty complete. Hardest part will be replacing the windshield. Get the measurements were she wraps around form side to side and post them.
That boat was designed down in the San Francisco bay area and for the constant Chop on that water so you will be hard pressed to find Any classic that will give you a better ride. (I have the Dorsett Catalina, then the next one up is the Dorsett San Juan, then the Farallon)
Lots of cabin space on those. I see the bunk dowels laying on the rear deck for the smaller bunks above the seats.

So, allot has to do with the big first question. Are you going to keep this boat? Unsure, then might not go nuts using foam under the floor boards.
Just replace the wood as I see you have all your patterns available to copy from. That Merc will move her around just fine.

Right when you enter the cabin, which is the lowest point when she is setting in water, is 18" from the floor to the hull.
Those that I had seen all had MDO plywood (same stuff Stop signs used to me made from) stringers and no opening back under the floor.
The bilge pump was just under the first step going into the cabin.
If the stringers are fine, some folks foam the bilge area with a good closed cell foam (I tend to always rely on Fiberlays foam myself)

I myself will drill into the transom in several places with a tarp under catching what comes out, black and hard, still have some years left, black and soft, its gone.
If she has been in the dry country most of her life (I did see were the bow was down and holding water, and I would bet it got under the deck floor) chances are, its fine.
If you drill out wood looking chips, she is fine. When done, I use a Oak dowel and epoxy to plug the holes. ( I drill the holes just a smidge or tad larger than the dowel, scribe or grove the dowel, epoxy it and pound it back into the hole. I cut it to length first and pound it in as so its flush with the wood, not fiberglass. They you can use something like Evercoat Lite to fill the fiberglass void.
If you rap on it with a big rubber mallet and all seems fine, leave it alone.

As for the Helm, you can just rebuild it using the patterns that are there. If you want a Starboard helm, now is the time to change it over. I have seen them both ways so its up to you. For the most part, they are on the starboard side of the boat.
I see its rack and pinion which will work just fine even if you move it to the Starboard side.
Check that cable, turn the wheel lock to lock and if Any binding, you Can replace that cable or upgrade to a no feedback steering system. Not much more than the rack and pinion.

For the most part, people have used those 6 gallon fuel cells but I am lazy, I will normally move that weight forward and put tanks under seating boxes.
Its a personal preference.

I know how those girls ride so I move the batteries and tanks forward which helps keep the bow down and the engine is not working as hard to keep her on plane
If I remember right, they set just fine in the water with the bow up when only the engine is on the rear. The more weight you add back there, the harder your motor is working to keep her up on plane.

Looking at your engine, I see where the back is missing the little splashwell bulkhead. Those seem to rot away pretty fast but not hard to replace one.

So, back to the big question, what are your plans with her ?

[Helmar]

Come to think about it, I think they had Saddle tanks up by the cabin bulkhead, port and starboard and Maybe, a cross over under the deck floor between them.
Once you pull the side panels, it will look like you have a Ton of room in there too. Look for the tanks.
If they are Fiberglass tanks, this new gas turns the fiberglass resin to Snot in which we had a few of the guys just use a super Fine filter. Others, replaced the tanks with plastic.

[TheBronze]

Wow! Reminds me of the 404 when I took her home. A complete mess! But I had a vision, and a patient wife. Just realize that as she sits, it is a complete restoration. Likely floor, transom, and bulkheads. You will spend a lot of time getting to know the ins and outs of that old girl!

I think Helmar's question is really important. Do you plan on keeping her? If so, do it all right and you'll have a great time and great boat when you are done. (I've always liked the bunk setup on those Faralons. I hope you restore it to that functionality.) If you are looking to move on, don't sweat the small stuff and get the big construction items done enough to get her back on the water. And for heaven's sake, move that helm to where it belongs!

Custom or OEM?
Decide if you are going to go OEM or custom. I went custom on the 404. A little easier on the hardware sourcing and it allowed me great liberty on construction of seat boxes, cabinets, etc. I have a LOT of storage room on that boat due to the way I built her. The down side is, you have to plan it all out and have shop drawings of what you want to do. With OEM, you can just use the existing templates and re-build.

Wood
With all the original bits in place, you should have plenty of templates to build from. Just be prepared for the materials cost. Plywood has really gone up in price and down in quality the last year or so. Stay away from big box stores and get your wood from a reputable hardwood supplier. You will pay more, but be happier in the long run. When I built the floor, bulkheads, and panels on the 404, I used a combination of cabinet grade birch from home depot for the big 3/4 pieces and imported 1/2 for smaller bits. Both were decent wood with very few voids and thick laminates. My most recent exposure to the HD 3/4" was very disappointing. Lots of voids and fairly expensive at $55 a sheet. The 1/2" I got at Eden Saw for the berth panels was better, but still not great. C/C+ grade for $66 a sheet! They didn't have any B or A grade at the time, but I would imagine they will go for closer to $100 a sheet. Keep in mind, if you plan on painting your bulkheads you won't need anything finer than C/C+. If you want to stain, look for higher grade.

Resin/Fiberglass
Find a good supplier and stick with them. Fiberlay, Fiberglass Supply are in the Seattle area. I went with US Composites in Florida though. A lot to ship, but really good pricing that keeps you ahead in the end. You will go through a LOT of resin, so buy in bulk. I used two 5 gallon kits on the 404 plus an additional 2 gallons. It's good to have a lot on hand to do what you need to do. Having to pay ridiculous West Marine prices really sucks, so plan ahead.
An example:
1 gallon west system polyester resin: $60
1 gallon from US Composites: $30.50
Add some shipping and you will still come out ahead. A 5 gallon kit of the stuff is $125, plus shipping depending on where you live. Similar results can be had from other retailers.
For the record, I went with Vinylester.

Foam.
Get some, use it. Really makes a difference in ride quality in these old boats.

Fun.
Have some! I've been restoring the 404 for 5 years now. Thought it would take 1. It has been a lot of fun (and frustration at times) and is really rewarding. Having her on the water is just so sweet. Pride in work/ownership is an amazing thing in these old boats.


Long post, but you just trying to get good information to you and set expectations.

[timgoodwin]

My plans are to keep her for the rest of my life and then pass her on to my son. Thanks for all the advice. I need all the help I can get. I'm in the process of cleaning her out right now and will post pictures of the completion of that work when finished. Found a stain called Interlux Interstain for the interior wood. Would that work do you think? I am going for a mahogany look. Well, back to it. Thanks again for the advice.

[Helmar]

My plans are to keep her for the rest of my life and then pass her on to my son. Thanks for all the advice. I need all the help I can get. I'm in the process of cleaning her out right now and will post pictures of the completion of that work when finished. Found a stain called Interlux Interstain for the interior wood. Would that work do you think? I am going for a mahogany look. Well, back to it. Thanks again for the advice.

Ok on the keeping her.
So, pictures pictures pictures. Pretty much anything by Interlux should be fine. Never used all of there products but happy with the ones I have.

[TheBronze]

Good to hear you are going to keep her. Looking forward to pics as the restoration progresses. Congratulations!

For the wood on the 404, I went with Minwax Gunstock. Readily available at big box stores and the colors are consistent across lots. You might check their colors out. What I did was grab a few little 2 oz cans of the stuff and I stained some samples for comparison. Picked the one I liked best and kept the rest for other projects.

I varnished with Helmsman Spar Urethane varnish. Again, readily available, made for boats supposedly, and good results.

[timgoodwin]

Has anyone ever heard of extending a vessel? I know it takes from the original value and all but if I don't plan on selling her why not.

[Helmar]

Has anyone ever heard of extending a vessel? I know it takes from the original value and all but if I don't plan on selling her why not.

I have not done it but I have seen folks do it.
I know Skagit Hideaway has extended his Skagit and I was thinking about extending a wooden Lady Clipper but let it get away from me. The whole transom was off the rear and I wanted to take it back another 18 inches.

If your going do the Farallon, might be ok but you would have to be dead on mark or compromise performance.
I know some of the boats that had been setting on roller trailers full of water, the bottom would, cup or have the indention's in the hull and they got squirrley, pulled to one side or the other.

Other folks ??

[TheBronze]

My advice would be to not do that. The hull was designed the way it was for a reason. Extending it will introduce structural weakness at the extension and probably adversely affect the handling of the boat. Remember, these aren't deep V modern craft, and even the best of them deliver a rough ride in comparison. Plus, if you aren't a naval architect....

If you think you need more length, then a longer boat would be in order. however, not many classics made it past the 20 foot mark. If it is a storage/usability concern, examine your space and decide how you can best utilize what you have. We have a ton of space on our 404 and she is only 18.5 feet. Careful design considerations have led to plenty of usable space - and I'm still not done filling the cabin with furniture!

[Skagit Hideaway]

There are many different types of "extensions", from motor set-back brackets to full hull extensions. What did you have in mind and why? I decided to lengthen the hull of this Skagit 20 because, we wanted to close up the transom cut-out to improve freeboard and gain the extra cockpit space. Extending the hull reduces the displacement/Length ratio, even though you are adding weight, so there should be a gain in speed and better handling stability. Modern composite materials are considerably stronger than what these boats were made from, so structural weakness need not be an issue, if done well. Bolt-on extensions do present such issues however I understand.

The original Skagit 20 Length/Beam ratio is around 2.6. It will now be 2.86, and I like the looks of that - attached photo composite of lengthened hull.

[timgoodwin]

Ya know, I think that's good advice to not extend her. She's gonna be a great little vessel just as she is and I would hate to ruin those great lines. Thanks guys. PS: Cleaning has commenced. Love you guys boats. Hope mine turns out as nice as yours.

[Helmar]

Ya know, I think that's good advice to not extend her. She's gonna be a great little vessel just as she is and I would hate to ruin those great lines. Thanks guys. PS: Cleaning has commenced. Love you guys boats. Hope mine turns out as nice as yours.

Even if it was done very professionally, I feel it would decrease the "later on" value of the boat, But there are NO Stupid or Dumb questions about restoration, really !!!!!
Simple things to someone that has done them can be over looked.

The more pictures you can take of detailed areas or Any area that might be in question, take them and post them.
This is not hard to do and the good thing about it, there are lots of us that have done things, new school and old school. We all had different opinions on what to use and how which will be more than enough for you to forum your own opinion on how you want to go about your restoration.
I was one of the guys on Chuck Careys beautiful blue Dorsett Farallon.
I did all the helm work, wiring, cabin work. If I remember right, I did most of the knees and other cockpit seating work.

I also did some of the work on Allan and Sue's Farallon. I know I did part of the wiring and started the belly tank but got pulled and put on the 21 Bell Boy that belongs to Bruce Drake.

When they got too big for the shop, we moved up to Port Townsends Boat Haven. Nice Shain that we did too.

And, some other build up stuff, pattern making, marking scripts as so you know were they go, that kind of stuff.

[Skagit Hideaway]

Extending is certainly not something to do on a whim. The 2.6 l/b ratio makes these boats run naturally at higher trim angles (bow up) seems to me, which tends to make a boat harder riding and less energy efficient. What were the designers thinking? Some say they were trying to get as much consumer useable boat area to fit on a 20' trailer as possible, by making them beamier. Lengthening the hull brings the trim angle down, reduces form drag, lessens vertical accelleration from wave impact, makes it less suseptible to trim changes as speed and weight distribution vary, it will stay on plane at lower speeds, and be more comfortable in a seaway - better in every way. One boat designer recommends when building a boat, that you pick the size you want and then make it 15% longer. You'll have a much better boat. I'll lengthen a Farallon next, to give the Skagit a buddy boat.