16ft Bell Boy Restore

[Helmar]

Another update on the progress.

Got the first layup cut and ready, now to get the transom skin ready. Filled all the voids with Fiberlays Fiberfiller so its nice and Flat, No voids

Then it was to build some cribbing to jack against. I went a little over board on this as it did not need to be this ridgid like doing the Skagits were the transom is what is called a Tumble home transom. Never the less it didn't take that much more to be on the safe side.

I use the Scissors jacks as I don't have to worry about the hydraulic jacks leaking off. This one, I only needed three jacks.

So, got all the cribbing and clamps all out and did a dry run to make sure everything drops into place once I have the two layers of matt plywood in place.
(John, you were right, these pieces were Really dry and was soaking up the resin pretty fast)

I didn't have enough resin mixed up and in the tray (I will pour the resin into a paint tray and use a roller) for the first round and seen I was going to run out when it came time to saturate the first layup of the transom wood, so quick like a bunny mixed up another 8oz and saturated it as well. I wanted to make sure I had plenty of resin as I did all the ends or sides of the plywood and it was really soaking up the resin so glad I had extra.

Put the two layers of matt in place, slopped them up pretty good, dropped in the first layup after it was saturated, let it slide down snug to the bottom of the hull and put the center jack in place with just a little pressure. Got the other cribbing in place, nothing moved or slipped, put the jacks in and applied equal pressure and out came the resin oozing from the bottom and sides. Installed the upper clamps and the resin was oozing out of the sides and tops..

Next step is once this kicks off, I will pull the jacks and cribbing and drop in the pattern piece as the next one will be a tad deeper do to the angle of the transom and it moving forward.

I will be filling the voids on each side of the transom and any that are on the bottom with fiberfiller.

Once the transom is finished, its time to start the stringers as I will butt them up against the new transom and tie into it.

I have a wood fire box in the shop so just as I was finishing up, I stoked that things to the gills and had both fans blowing the heat at the boat.. Two hours later, went back out and stoked the fire box one more time for the night and seen that the resin had kicked off and was in the curing process.
I like it when things work out like wanted.

[John Nelson]

The plywood is supposedly fur, treated. I let It weather on each side about a month till it turned brown and began to check, so resin will stick. I've had it on edge in the boat shed for the last three years waiting for a boat. I did the same thing on the last boat I did it wont rot even if it gets wet.

[Helmar]

Looking great, thanks for all the details. I know trying to keep all the fiberglass tight is difficult and very important for strength and voids. One of my friends is a composit engineer and he was explaining to me how important vacuum bagging is to keep out voids and keep the strands tight-It was more then I wanted to tackle.
Is that fir plywood?

Yes, Marine Fir plywood.
If a person is just using the Stitch cloth/roving with the matt attached, its not that tricky. But, never replace them again as even IF the wood was to rot out, got the Glass strings now

[sclapsaddle]

Looking great, thanks for all the details. I know trying to keep all the fiberglass tight is difficult and very important for strength and voids. One of my friends is a composit engineer and he was explaining to me how important vacuum bagging is to keep out voids and keep the strands tight-It was more then I wanted to tackle.
Is that fir plywood?

[Helmar]

One thing I forgot to add, I think I am going to want to use the Stitched Roving and just use a extra layer for build up as its not as heavy as the other roving I showed.

So, onto the transom build. I am going build it out to two inches.

I did the pop cycle stick and cut door skin pattern like I normally do. This seems to work best for me, others use card board and other methods that work for them.

This transom is not hard to put in as its not a Tumble Home transom (wrap around) like in the Skagits. The Skagits already have the fiberglass stringers so I clamp across the tops of them with some cribbing and backing and use Scissor Jacks (find them for next to Nothing in You Pull It wrecking yards) and timbers (4x4 hunks or a couple of 3x4's screwed together) and jack each piece of transom layup into place.

The stringer in this boat are Shot and I mean SHOT as in digging them out with a plastic spoon so because she has a flat transom, i will be fiberglassing some cribbing into place across the top of the main keel stringer and right down onto the hull and jack from that to place the transom layers in and let the cure.

On this one, I have a couple of Voids in the transom skin that will need to be filled and on this one like I did Kellys, I will use two layers of soaked Mat down first, then the first layup for the transom.
Once I have that, then I fill Any voids I can find with fiberfiller (fiberglass putty).

I will then take my first pattern I made and stick it back in the boat as cutting that pattern out, I know the bottom has a angle as the transom is not at a 90 degree angle off the hull. So, the bottom of the first transom lay up piece will the angle cut on it.
The second one is going to be just Tad wider as well as a Tad deeper as I am moving forward in the layups.

Using this pop cycle stick thing like I do, I can pretty much Nail it the first couple of tries..

I lay the pattern down, mark with my little 90 degree angle tool, make my marks and then use a ruler to connect the dots. I always cut the Line. Never on the inside or outside, but right on the line which saves me too much belt sander or wood file time. I can Always take a little more off but impossible to put more wood back on. Also saves on how much Fiberfiller I will have to use.

With this transom on this smaller boat, I am able to get two transom layouts on one sheet.
First one is marked, then the pattern is laying on the other side ready to be marked, After Modified to be longer and a tad wider. Just shows I have the room to make the second one a tad bigger. Lines are hard to see on this due to the angle I took the picture, but its ready to change the angle of my jig saw and start cutting.

SO, will be a slow process due to the cold and this damn plantar fasciitis I am fighting with in my feet. I Hate getting old, going kicking and scratching every inch of the way

[Helmar]

Now for the transom buildup. Its important that anything your working with, is DRY..

When I have to go and purchase expensive plywood or lumber, I take this little meter with me and find the one that happens to be the Driest ones I can find.
This might be a little overkill but you can Feel if the wood is damn and if you can feel dampness, find another one or dry it out.

My plywood storage is a pain in the ass as I have insulation up against my wall, then a piece of press board, then my plywood, then vertical spacers (stickers), then the next piece of plywood, spacers and so on, then all that is setting on 2x4's fastened to some scrap plywood to keep it off the floor, the with the air spaces, crank up the heat and let them dry out. For the most part, I try to keep several sheets in stock with dates written on the edges and pull the oldest ones first.
This is were its a pain in the ass as I have to cycle though the whole stack and then clamp them all back up against the wall so No warping can happen.
That picture did not come out very well but you can see the 2x4 covered with house rug. There are 4 of them, one on top and bottom, then two inbetween.

You can see I have some loose stuff leaning up against it in the photo as well.
The stringer wood, its up in he rafters hanging to dry or keep dry.

[Helmar]

This will show how we covered samples 4, 5, and 6. First picture, The roving was put over the tops at the standard 90 degree angle and it was Not easy to get it to lay down.

Now for samples 7 and 8, Second picture, we put the roving down at a 45 degree angle. This seemed to lay over the tops and fill the voids very nicely. Not near as much work going over and over to get it to, stay stuck in place. But a little lifting was going on on Number 8 sample.

I will say this several times as I think its important, at leas to me, NO voids is what you are after. Voids will collect condensation, over time, it builds up. Then if you boat is not in a heated garage (in my dreams) the moisture in that void will freeze and then that expands. Once you have moisture in there, the rot of the wood is now started.

[Helmar]

Ok so here is what we put down on samples 1 and 2. The Stitched roving and mat.

This was Roving, Mat, Roving, Mat...(I might have this wrong so John, if you see this please hit the Quote and fix this as it might be 3 Mat and 3 Roving.)

[Helmar]

More on Stringers.
Here is where I cut the sample mockup apart to check to make sure no voids.

So, here I have them all cut in sections and viewing the ends of them.

Right at the end of #3 and onto #4 is were we went to the Roving at the standard 90 degree angle. As you can see, we have a void were it sets down on the hull.

I should explain, when you Set these stringers, you set them in a bed of Fiberfiller and use your finger to put a finger Fill-it (like you would caulking your bathtub) so you don't have that tight angle to fill the voids.

Notice on #8, its lifted up and looks to be a air pocket..... For the rest of them, it took some going over and over and over to get the 90 degree angle Roving to stay in place and not lift.

[Helmar]

Ok, another quick update, well, maybe not so quick. Fiberglass Stringers and How Too.

What John Nelson and I did last weekend is do a mock up of the stringers and covering them with the Mat and Roving to make sure we could get it to Stick to the wood stringers.
The trick was, first Fiberglass the Resin onto the wood stringers and using the Styrene Monomer (Fiberglass Thinner for penetration into the roving and wood as a sealer) on the stringer samples first.

I think I had better make a couple posts explaining what the pictures are and reference to them. So the sample layup.

First picture, Numbers one - three is using the 45 degree angle Stitched Roving with Mat on the bottom side..
Second picture, number four - six is using Mat, Roving, Mat, Roving at the standard 90 degree angle. very hard to get it Over the stop and to stick tight between the stringer and hull as well as Over the top of the stringer.

Notice the stringer tops have been rounded as its next to impossible to get it to over tight angles. (this is were you mark your Transom and up in the cabin for the centers of the stringers, I mean Dead Center and once you anchor or fasten down the floor, you need to snap a line to you make sure your fasteners are dead center on the stringers..

The last two pictures are seven and eight is using Mat, then Roving at a 45 degree angle.
In the next post, I will show the angles of the roving.

[Helmar]

It’s amazing how little it actually takes to hold things together. Resin probably started to kick before they got it all clamped together. I was interested in that coosa board initially also until I saw the price...

Your other option using mat and roving is the PCV foam board. I have three sheets and going to make at least the bulkhead and map dash out of it. Maybe the floor as well. Still in heavy pondering that

[sclapsaddle]

It’s amazing how little it actually takes to hold things together. Resin probably started to kick before they got it all clamped together. I was interested in that coosa board initially also until I saw the price...

[Helmar]

I got her pretty much gutted now and going after the keel stinger.

I was thinking how nice it would be to use the Coosa board for my side stringers as well as the transom but then looked at the price of a 4x8x1/2" sheet...Ah, prices have not come down. Nice thing about using that, it never goes bad. WIthout shipping, I see the lowest price of each sheet was $240 bucks

I think I am back to just using the Marine plywood, fir stringers but do a build up of glass matt and roving. The stitched roving/matt is the way to go I think here. Its rolling it over the tops of the stringers but trying to keep it tight over the top and upper sides is the hard part. Don't want any air pockets in it. I still need wood to imbed the deck screws into..

See, the thing here is, Every boat I have ever taken down, when I find the wood that has been Sealed from moisture or water, its still good. 9 times out of 10, the inside Cabin top stringers are the last to go. I did small core samples of the ones in this boat and they are still good ?? How can that be, that wood is almost 60 years old !!.
The big trick is, NO voids, seal the hell out of Everything. No air pockets for moisture to even start collecting, no Voids at all is what I go for.

I don't want anyone having to Ever replace these again so whatever I decide, its going to be built to last.

[Helmar]

Today I pulled out the old rotten transom and was quite surprised in what I found. I Hate Hack jobs.

I can't express enough how important it is to Seal Up your work !!!. None of the end grain was sealed and it shows.
Someone replaced this transom before. They used MDO plywood (which is ok I guess as they used to make Road signs out of the stuff but I am More than sure they sealed the ends.) This transom was not even stuck to the fiberglass transom skin, but only in a few places.

I will have several pictures if you look for the little red arrows, I am pointing at the Only places that the transom was glassed to the first layer of wood they put down. The only thing that was holding this was the white areas, anything dark was Not glassed to the transom.

What they did on this one is the first layer down was Cloth, Not chopped mat to level everything out so only parts of it stuck. The splashwell drain plugs were leaking as those were not sealed when put in, Any holes they drilled into the old transom, was not sealed, The sides were not sealed Nor the Bottom of the transom !!!. Unreal. Thought I see it all.

You can see the stages I took the old transom out. I use a old spring leaf from one of the old automobiles that I tap down in and break the wood apart. The MDO wood in places were still nice and bright but just as soon as I started prying on them, the layers came right apart as if the glue that they used was, well, not very good.

The think you need to remember, Any hole you put into the transom, needs to be sealed. You need to seal the edges, bottom and cap were the motor sets, all needs fiberglass sealed or your looking for trouble.

This transom had a gap on both sides were it did not go out to the hull sides leaving a void for moisture to build up. That keeps building up, then freeze, then more moisture or water can get in, that will freeze and open things up even more. With that, if its not sealed, its not going last very long at all. Only takes a short time to seal it all up and do it what I call, the right way.

So now she is down and only a little wood in places but will scuff that whole thing up with the belt sander and be ready for matt and the first layer of wood, if I go that way. Thinking that coosa board (I know that is not spelled right)

The stingers, I was looking for a plastic spoon to show me taking out the back end of the stringer with a plastic spoon, that is how rotton those are.

Oh, one more thing. If you carry the transom all the way across at the motor mount level, you should be fine. I have Lapped it so one down, one up, one down with overlays screwed and glassed to each other for the upper corner pieces that all they do is hold some screws and maybe a handle.
By doing it that way, you won't go though as many 4x8 sheets with leftovers.
I see on this one, they used 3/4" MDO and was able to get two pieces and the leftovers, they built up the under the gunnel pieces in. They just stacked it on this one, no overlapping of the wood so it was real easy to seperate. Well, those not being sealed were pretty rotten anyway..

Here are some pictures of the demo of the transom. I use a panel saw to just make cuts that are at least a 1/6th inch short of touching the fiberglass transom..

The last photo shows the wood out off the skin and ready for the belt sanding. Notice the dark spots...The Fiberglass only stuck in the white areas, all the dark area, it was a Void for moisture to build up in pockets.

[Helmar]

Helmar,

I was reading your post and I think it's going to turn out looking great. I read you were thinking about your back seat, and keeping the boat light. I am attaching some pics of how I did my back seat. I did them in a modular set-up. I only use what I'm going to need for that particular trip. The small doors on the rear bulkhead have lift-off style hinges. I keep my fuel tanks behind the rear bulkhead, to fill them I just lift the doors off and place them out of the way. The fold down rear seats also have lift-off hinges and fold down legs, when not in use I fold them down for more space. I also use the fold down seats as my kitchen area. I place a Coleman Stove on one of them, and the other seat used as a kitchen counter. I have a full length seat cushion and back if I need a complete back seat. Sometimes I don't load the rear folding seats at all.........it makes for more room.

Nice looking setup. I like that being able to pull it in and out when needed. I like universal setup for sure..
You might be interested in my next post as I demo'ed the transom and going to show, What Not To Do. Whoever did this, it was a Hack job.