16ft Bell Boy Restore

[sclapsaddle]

Looking great, thanks for all the details. I know trying to keep all the fiberglass tight is difficult and very important for strength and voids. One of my friends is a composit engineer and he was explaining to me how important vacuum bagging is to keep out voids and keep the strands tight-It was more then I wanted to tackle.
Is that fir plywood?

[Helmar]

Looking great, thanks for all the details. I know trying to keep all the fiberglass tight is difficult and very important for strength and voids. One of my friends is a composit engineer and he was explaining to me how important vacuum bagging is to keep out voids and keep the strands tight-It was more then I wanted to tackle.
Is that fir plywood?

Yes, Marine Fir plywood.
If a person is just using the Stitch cloth/roving with the matt attached, its not that tricky. But, never replace them again as even IF the wood was to rot out, got the Glass strings now

[John Nelson]

The plywood is supposedly fur, treated. I let It weather on each side about a month till it turned brown and began to check, so resin will stick. I've had it on edge in the boat shed for the last three years waiting for a boat. I did the same thing on the last boat I did it wont rot even if it gets wet.

[Helmar]

Another update on the progress.

Got the first layup cut and ready, now to get the transom skin ready. Filled all the voids with Fiberlays Fiberfiller so its nice and Flat, No voids

Then it was to build some cribbing to jack against. I went a little over board on this as it did not need to be this ridgid like doing the Skagits were the transom is what is called a Tumble home transom. Never the less it didn't take that much more to be on the safe side.

I use the Scissors jacks as I don't have to worry about the hydraulic jacks leaking off. This one, I only needed three jacks.

So, got all the cribbing and clamps all out and did a dry run to make sure everything drops into place once I have the two layers of matt plywood in place.
(John, you were right, these pieces were Really dry and was soaking up the resin pretty fast)

I didn't have enough resin mixed up and in the tray (I will pour the resin into a paint tray and use a roller) for the first round and seen I was going to run out when it came time to saturate the first layup of the transom wood, so quick like a bunny mixed up another 8oz and saturated it as well. I wanted to make sure I had plenty of resin as I did all the ends or sides of the plywood and it was really soaking up the resin so glad I had extra.

Put the two layers of matt in place, slopped them up pretty good, dropped in the first layup after it was saturated, let it slide down snug to the bottom of the hull and put the center jack in place with just a little pressure. Got the other cribbing in place, nothing moved or slipped, put the jacks in and applied equal pressure and out came the resin oozing from the bottom and sides. Installed the upper clamps and the resin was oozing out of the sides and tops..

Next step is once this kicks off, I will pull the jacks and cribbing and drop in the pattern piece as the next one will be a tad deeper do to the angle of the transom and it moving forward.

I will be filling the voids on each side of the transom and any that are on the bottom with fiberfiller.

Once the transom is finished, its time to start the stringers as I will butt them up against the new transom and tie into it.

I have a wood fire box in the shop so just as I was finishing up, I stoked that things to the gills and had both fans blowing the heat at the boat.. Two hours later, went back out and stoked the fire box one more time for the night and seen that the resin had kicked off and was in the curing process.
I like it when things work out like wanted.

[Helmar]

I was wrong on the year of my little 16ft Bell Boy Express. After wading though all the documentation, its showing my was a late 1957 Bell Boy Express. Ok by me.
I do have a area to look for the badge on these as they fiberglassed them onto the inside of the hull just about under the cabin windshield on the starboard side. I have never looked on this one but will now.

Anyway, on the third layup of the transom build so the picture all look alike now other than one more 1/2" thickness on the transom.
Once the transom is in, then I will go after the stringers.

[Helmar]

I have three 1/2" sheets in and the forth and final one might go into today, then its starting on the stringers.

[pats]

Originally posted by pats View Post in Classic Boat Sightings

Hi Guys,

• Helmar,
  
  I'm going to copy your last reply, and reply to it in the Boat Restoration forum. In your 16' Bell Boy Restore post. Your reply has some very good and important information, that coincides with your Bell Boy Restoration Project. I don't want the information to be obscured or "lost" here in the Classic Boat Sightings. Someday, someone like myself (a beginner) will be desperately needing it. I hope that my doing this doesn't offend or break the rules.....

Sorry about taking so long to reply, I've been out of town taking care of Christmas visits . Jared, thanks for the pictures of the stringers. Were the stringers just tabbed in? I think on my 1964 model, the stringers sat on a sheet of 1/2'' plywood. Did yours? From the description in your pictures it says that your going to modify your splash well for a bench seat. I would be interested in seeing your progress on that, and your design. I'm going to reach a point very soon on my boat, that changes or modifications would be very easy. I've been looking at a re-build that Helmar did on fuel tanks and thinking about using the same idea or design. I've also been keeping a sharp eye on Helmar's latest posts about his Bell Boy restoration. Especially, the fiberglass testing on the stringers. Thanks again for the pictures, post a few more if you have time.

For the most part, I think your going to find MDO plywood in them. Not sure about the 64 model as you notice the hull design changed, Allot !. Its about the time they figured out the V Hull design for a better ride. On the early ones, they stuck her nose pretty deep in the water so she could handle the choppy waters of the San Francisco Bay waters were she was designed. The cabin top design did not change much at all.

On my Bell Boy, I am still in the process of putting in the transom. One more sheet of 1/2" exterior Green plywood and then its time to start on the keel stringer..
There are many ways people can put in the stringers. Me, I work with the laser as I will just set it back up and shoot the vertical and horizontal line down the keel in which I just measure down from my laser line.

Another way I have seen this done is using a string line for level. You run the string just above the stringer from the bow to the stearn and then across from port to starboard. I just never came up with a good way of holding the string tight other than Gorilla tape. If you go across the top of the keel stringer and then equal distance down from the chine edge, you can get it that way too.

I also have a couple of small laser levels that I use that I can place right next to the stringer and shoot my line too. That works just as well as the spinning laser on the transom. No need for so much measuring.

I also have a straight edge board that I made up that I lay right on top of the old stringer, then I use pop cycle sticks from the top top of the stringer down to the hull. (once I get to that point, I will have pictures to share) I take that out and lay it on my keel board that will need the bottom cut to fit the hull. Kind of hard to explain and draw a picture with words.....
I also use a degree angle gauge where the hull starts to change angles as I am moving forward. I start out maybe ever 8" from the stearn forward and were the hull starts changing, I write the degree angle change on the pop cycle stick so I know to change the angle of the saw. When I get closer to the bow, that changes fast so maybe every 4 inch's I will put a pop cycle stick and write down the change of angel to cut.
Then its in and out of the boat fitting with the power plane or draw knife (mostly power plane) until I get the fit I need..

Once I have a good fit, then I mix up several batches of FiberFilller to lay down just under the keel stringer to bed the keel stinger on. Use whatever squeezes out on the sides to make a nice fillet (like you would do caulking a bath tub or shower) to help when the stitched roving/matt, to go over the stringers. Also allowing for the height of the bottom of floor to nest on it.

Hope I did not make this too confusing. Once I get to that step, I will make sure to show pictures.

Helmar,

Thanks for all the information. I have been keeping a close watch on this post and your progress. As you know, I have the same tasks ahead of me. I have recently completed another trip to work on my boat. Since arriving home from the trip, I feel like I have been "bushwacked" by all the things that need to be done at home, errands, and Christmas travel, etc., (1 step forward, 3 steps back). I still need to write a post on the progress I made on my boat on this last trip. Hopefully, I can do it soon.

Once again; after reading your posts, and re-reading them until I think I understand, I have some questions:

When you use the laser, is the boat level? I tried looking at the pictures, but I couldn't tell if it was on the trailer or suspended by straps. Either way, do you make sure the boat is level before you use the laser? Or does it matter? I leveled my boat on the trailer. I have a self-leveling laser, that I mounted in the center of the cockpit. I can re-mount it in the same place by using the same mounting screw holes. I marked 90 180 270 360 degrees. By using 90 degrees then turning it to 270 degrees, I leveled the boat side to side. I used 180 degrees and 360 degrees to make sure the boat was sitting straight on the trailer, not twisted or out of shape - front to back. To make the boat level front to back, I would have to use the trailer jack at the front of the trailer. Will I need to level the boat front to back using the trailer jack, to get an accurate reading from the laser? I think I can set the laser on a level spot and "jam" the laser in place if it's necessary to have a stationery line to measure from. Does the boat need to be level front to back, or just side to side? Or both? I am concerned about maintaining the straightness of the chines. After reading how you do it, I'm not sure I am doing it correctly.

I'm including some pictures so that you may understand what I'm trying to describe. I know what you mean when you say " it's hard to paint pictures with words". I have a few more questions, but tomorrows another day.

You have a very informative post going on, keep up the good work...............

[Helmar]

Helmar,

Thanks for all the information. I have been keeping a close watch on this post and your progress. As you know, I have the same tasks ahead of me. I have recently completed another trip to work on my boat. Since arriving home from the trip, I feel like I have been "bushwacked" by all the things that need to be done at home, errands, and Christmas travel, etc., (1 step forward, 3 steps back). I still need to write a post on the progress I made on my boat on this last trip. Hopefully, I can do it soon.

Once again; after reading your posts, and re-reading them until I think I understand, I have some questions:

When you use the laser, is the boat level? I tried looking at the pictures, but I couldn't tell if it was on the trailer or suspended by straps. Either way, do you make sure the boat is level before you use the laser? Or does it matter? I leveled my boat on the trailer. I have a self-leveling laser, that I mounted in the center of the cockpit. I can re-mount it in the same place by using the same mounting screw holes. I marked 90 180 270 360 degrees. By using 90 degrees then turning it to 270 degrees, I leveled the boat side to side. I used 180 degrees and 360 degrees to make sure the boat was sitting straight on the trailer, not twisted or out of shape - front to back. To make the boat level front to back, I would have to use the trailer jack at the front of the trailer. Will I need to level the boat front to back using the trailer jack, to get an accurate reading from the laser? I think I can set the laser on a level spot and "jam" the laser in place if it's necessary to have a stationery line to measure from. Does the boat need to be level front to back, or just side to side? Or both? I am concerned about maintaining the straightness of the chines. After reading how you do it, I'm not sure I am doing it correctly.

I'm including some pictures so that you may understand what I'm trying to describe. I know what you mean when you say " it's hard to paint pictures with words". I have a few more questions, but tomorrows another day.

You have a very informative post going on, keep up the good work...............

I should have stated that the Laser is a Reference point. I have Never seen any of these boats that you can be Dead On as it seems every one of them have slipped or was sloppy in the mold.
The boat does not have to be level but you need something to measure from.
Today, I had to Hot glue my laser were I needed it.
So, the key is start from the stearn. Chine edges equal on the trailer. The whole idea is like you stated, No twist in the hull.

Mine is on a flat bed trailer and I just use the laser to shoot a line equal on both sides, measure down to the chine edges to make sure no twist, both port and starboard as the same measurements.

I will try to get a picture as I put the laser on the transom skin. Measure up from the chine edge on both sides and make your marks both port and starboard. I run a line between them to use as what I level too with the laser. Then shoot it down the keel to the bow.
My laser will do both vertical and horizontal at the same time giving me cross hair lines. From the horizontal line, I measure down from the laser line to the chine edge on both sides forward to make sure no twist in the boat.

More later...
Helmar

[Helmar]

Just a quick update.
I got that last piece glassed in and ran the fiberfiller to seal the last one in.
I think before I grind down and put the cap on the transom, I will get after the stringers, starting shortest one first.

I had to hot glue the laser level in place and had to fuss with it so decided, Ok, I got things were they need to be so now I will make up some line up marks and a jig that will hold the stringer in place once I bed it down into the fiberfiller fillet.

So, again, a Laser is not necessary as long as you can level her up on a floor. Level it on the floor, then the trailer.
Measure from the floor up to the chine edges forward and aft to make sure no twisting.

The thing that you Don't want is if its on a roller trailer to have those rollers pushing up on the hull when you pull your stingers.

Like on mine, she is on a Flat trailer and on a Flat concrete floor measurements are the same from the floor and trailer up to the chine edges on both sides of boat.
That is really all you need however you do it as you don't want any twist in the boat hull. (if there is, your going to be fighting the steering all the time, like she will be wanting to pull one side or the other)

You can use strings taped to the boat for your lines you have to follow. Another way is from port to starboard, cut some 2x2's or something just the width so they set on the chine edge. From that, you can clamp some vertical pieces down to the hull next to the stringer,...If you are off, that is what they make power planes for so get as close as you can to the height you need and the angle of the bottom of your stringers to you have as close to a flush fit the hull.

It seems as I am explaining all this as it making it sound like its really hard to do when its not.

I am going to do my outside stringers first with a jig across the rest of them to know what the height needs to be.
The reason I am doing this way is that my stringers are so rotten in places that they have high and lows forward and aft as some of them are flattened out or bulged out. I just need a clean line.
If I am off, I can use the laser or strings with the power plain to take the tops down.
With mine also I need to round the tops so I will run the router down both sides to round the tops for the stitched matt roving to roll over the tops like I did with my samples shown back a few threads.

Lets pretend we are just using 1 x 4;s, You fit your 1x4 to the hull. Once you have a good fit to the hull. then this is were you can mark the top of the stringer that will need be cut. This could be done with a skill saw, very slowly of course. If need be clean up with the power plane.

Things will make more sense once I get mine going in and have pictures. I should have just waited with this but you should be able to follow me here.

Oh yeah, It was easy for me to spit this boat apart so I just raised up the cabin top.
I need flip it and do the wood under the gunnels and a few other ribs, flip it back over and hang it back up in the rafters like it is now.

[pats]

Helmar.

You've given me a lot to think about....................but a good sound basis to start from. I like the idea of using the hot glue gun to mount the laser. Another way I thought of to make sure there is no twist in the chines. Mark a line on the outside of the boat where it rests on each of the trailer bunks. If the boat moves or twists, the lines will show it. If the boat does move, just nudge it back into place. Does this idea sound like it might work? I'll include a picture of the boat on the trailer, so that you can understand what I'm trying to describe.

Another way is from port to starboard, cut some 2x2's or something just the width so they set on the chine edge. From that, you can clamp....(or hot glue).... some vertical pieces down to the hull next to the stringer,.........("all the way across")

If I took your above quoted idea. and made two as a "movement measuring" template. Then, placed one near the cabin bulkhead and the other near the transom, in an exact marked spot for each. If for some reason they didn't fit properly, you would know the boat had shifted or twisted. And you could use them to help re-align the boat back into a straight position. I'm not sure that I will have the same level area to work on the boat each time I go. Maybe these "ideas" will allow me to make sure the boat is straight where ever I work on it???

I know that you used Marine Grade Fir Plywood for the transom. What type of wood are you going to use for the stringers? I think earlier you indicated that you were going to use Marine Fir Plywood, are you still going to? I am keeping a sharp eye on your post, and I'm very interested in how you are going to install the stringers.The leveling, fillets, fiber glassing, the process and techniques that you use. I had planned on using two 3/4" pieces of plywood on my transom. But after seeing your 2" transom, I'm going to add a piece of 1/2" plywood to mine for a total of 2". It ought to be tough enough for just about any motor

What's next after you finish the stringers? Gas tanks, seating, cabin bulkhead, motors, steering??? I'm interested in what you choose for materials, designs, techniques. I've been looking through the restoration forum at some of your seating / Gas tank designs. I was impressed. I'm trying to decide on some different designs for my boat also. I hoping for under floor tanks, I don't know how much room there is under the floor yet. On one of my family christmas trips, I stopped in Albuquerque, NM, and talked to an aluminum welder/fabricator about making the gas tanks. I was wondering if he could modify a couple of used tanks I was looking at on ebay. Do you know of a good source for used aluminum tanks???

Its almost midnight here, and I'm wore out. I still have a lot of things to figure out, and I still need to do a progress report on my last trip. I made a couple of mistakes that only a beginner could. You'll probably get a kick out of them.............

I'm looking forward to your next post!

[Helmar]

Update to were I am now. Things have been kind of slow with the damn feet thing (plantar fasciitis), plus the old knees. I have one bench setup with Eds cabin door project and poking away at it. Going for no square corners on any of it. Pretty sure he will like it.

So with the Bell Boy I pulled one of the port side stringer out after making up the pattern.
First picture is the tools I am using to get my angles once the stringer starts moving forward up the boat.
Then you can see were I put a straight edge and pop cycle sticks to give the dept that I need.
I wrote down the changes in the degrees on the pop cycle sticks so I know when to turn the angle of the blade.

These stringers will be bedded down in some FiberFiller (I think I said that before) and I have done enough of the angle cutting like this that its easy for me to do. It does not take me much longer to fit it almost flat to the hull and really, they don't need to be but just means less FiberFiller I need to use is all.
Nothing is perfect but I always like getting as close as I can..

The last photo is two of my favorite tools I use now.. I can trim the excess stringer tabs away with the saw cutting blade and then I use the rough blade like a sanding block and knock down the rest of the area to give myself at least 75% fresh glass surface to fiberglass too. I will go for 100% until the old knees start giving out.

Once this stringer is cut and fitted, I will build up a jig that will go over the top as so set some weight on it so it beds down as tight as I can get it between the stringer and hull.

I use the small laser just to keep myself in check but really, its overkill I think. This whole thing could be done with string but I have marks Everywhere but have to go back and check from time to time as to remember what the marks are...Dummy me did not write down what all of them were.

I didn't get any pictures of the one stringer out of the boat as the bed under it, I still need to do some clean up work with the wood chisel.

The big plan is (and again, might be over kill) to remove and replace the stringers one at a time. I have some 2x8's that go across from chine edge to chine edge that I can walk on and keep my 200 plus pounds from stepping on the hull and moving it.. I was you might say, suspended above the hull in its natural state to make sure my pattern was dead on.
I found if I take a little more time with my patterns, it saves me Many trips in and out of the boat doing the final fitting.
One of my problems, I tend to leave more wood than I should. I can always take some more wood off but its hard to put it back on....So, with the laser or straight edge, I mark it and have the power plane to take it down if need be. Because I am going to make fiberglass stringers over the wood for a Forever fix, I will use the trim router and jig to round off the tops for the stitched matt to go over the tops of the stringers without leaving any voids.

The floor will be fiberglass matt and cloth over PVC 1/2" foam board, then the adhesive closed cell flotation foam under the floor. This thing should Bounce over rock croppings under the surface of the water..
I am keeping a close eye on weight. I think once I am done, I should be damn close to the proper weight it should be.

Again, this is not Rocket Science. Stringers are fiberglassed to the hull, sealed with resin, covered with resin and even if a wood floor, that is all we are trying to do here. Replace the stringers and seal it all up. So, I am kind of going over kill you might say .

After all these years, its hard for me to believe I am really building my Own classie from the Keel Up !!!

The one thing that would make this nice is if I did have a paying job in the next stall to help finance this build. So, any takers on needing any structure work or fiberglass work, let me know

Back at it.
Helmar

[Kelly]

"The floor will be fiberglass matt and cloth over PVC 1/2" foam board, then the adhesive closed cell flotation foam under the floor."
Curious why you chose foam board on this one?
Looking good, watch out though, eating all those popsicles will catch up with you

[Helmar]

"The floor will be fiberglass matt and cloth over PVC 1/2" foam board, then the adhesive closed cell flotation foam under the floor."
Curious why you chose foam board on this one?
Looking good, watch out though, eating all those popsicles will catch up with you

Hi Kelly
Well, I have seen it done but mainly for larger boats to help cut the weight, or so they say, and I have always been interested in the process so going to do this on my boat for the experience.
I will Never have to replace the floor in it.
Everything inside the cockpit will fold down and building the structure as to hold a pot puller as well so Cindy and I can use it for crabbing as well as fishing.

[Helmar]

Made a little progress.
Going to pull the other stringer out, get one fit to it and then mix up the fiberfiller to seat them into. Doing the two at a time, I can put some weight on both of them and crank up the heat in the shop.
Slow going but getting there.

One thing I can tell you is if you don't have a band saw its going to be really hard to cut your angles as with the saber saw, the blade will want to wander all over the place.
Found this little thing at Harbor Freight as a example that would also work but most of the time you can find band saws for around 50 bucks on the Craiglist or Marketplace, use it for your stringers and then just sell it when your done.. My shop is FULL of equipment but the nice part, I put Everything on wheels were I can just pull it out from the wall and place it where I need it.

The pictures will show the one stringer that has been cut and trued for placement. No need to go nutso on how close you have it to the proper angle, just means a little less fiberfiller will be needed.

[pats]

Excellent workmanship ! ! !

I enjoy studying your pictures. Every time you have a new post, I get to learn a little something new. Sometimes, it's how to do it, or technique to do it, or the tools to do it with. It's always very interesting. I'm following your build very closely, and I will most likely use some of your techniques and ideas. I have been looking through your earlier restoration posts to see how you designed other projects. I'm trying to figure out some designs I want to try on my boat.

I'm still working on my next progress update, I hope to be finished in a few days. I'm looking forward to your next post........