Pouring my first bilge...advice? steps again?

[ricphoto]

ok...the time has come for me to foam the bilge of the DelMar...

product has been sitting here a while and it's finally to the "need to do it" stage so I can start on the finish work...

any advice or words of wisdom from you pros who have done it before?

I think I know the basics from my reading here and kinda what to look out for and not to do but it sure would be nice to read it step by step...

pretty please?

Thanks...Ric

[timw]

What does that mean?, to pour a bilge?

[ricphoto]

sorry...perhaps "foaming the bilge" would have been a better way of putting it...

...Ric

[Helmar]

sorry...perhaps "foaming the bilge" would have been a better way of putting it...

...Ric

Marty should be able to do this for you but I also can do a run down for you tonight.
Are you using the Fiberlay product?

[Marty Loken (Norseboater)]

Foaming your Bilge

Ric -

Probably the main thing this week is to hope that the hot weather magically returns, since the product expands more enthusiastically in warm conditions. (Warmth of the bilge itself counts, too, so you can't get maximum yield by only heating up the foam--everything should be warm.)

I'm facing the same challenge this week; waiting for hot weather to come back so I can do a foaming project.

Aside from that, just make sure you have lots of mixing tubs, rags, gloves and stir sticks. And wear clothes you are happy to toss in the garbage, including a long-sleeve shirt (no fun scraping hardened foam off the hair on your arms). Pour equal parts A and B together into a one-quart container--not more than about 20 ounces total--and stir rapidly for about 20-30 seconds...until the mixture starts to turn a different color. If it starts to rise out of the container, you've stirred too long; if you can still see separate 'strands' of the catalyst that havening yet blended with the product, keep stirring a bit long. Pour rapidly into 1-1/2" to 2" holes you've drilled in your cockpit floor, with the boat tilted up at a slight angle. (Start at the lowest point and gradually pour your way to the higher elevation, until foam has bubbled out of every hole.)

Important: Move from side to side, as well as uphill, assuming you have pouring holes drilled between each row of stringers. Place the holes on about 16" centers, fore and aft. Make sure that the foam has finished expanding inside of each hole before you pour into the next adjoining cavity, since a double pour of expanding foam in the same area could result in foam lifting your cockpit floor away from the stringers. (It happens to everyone sooner or later.)

Once all of the foam has been poured and its thoroughly cured, cut the above-floor eruptions off flush with a Japanese backsaw. Then mix up some silica-thickened epoxy (to creamy peanut butter consistency, hammer the plywood disks that were leftover from your hole drilling back into the foamed holes--compressing the foam with hammer blows until the ply disks are sitting flush with the rest of the floor. Then spread the thickened epoxy over the mess and into all crevices. When cured, sand the whole floor with 80 grit to get rid of leftover globs of epoxy and foam, and you're ready for the next phase of your project.

- Marty

[ricphoto]

Thanks...

Not sure if it's the exact same product as I got mine from Jamisons...High density, 2 part Urethane...up to 30:1 expansion

45 second working time... ;-p

...Ric

[ricphoto]

Thanks Marty...

I noticed the temp/expansion differences in the instructions...good reminder that haste, in this case, will indeed cost me...

guess I'll hold for a few days and hope it heats up again...

seeing your hole layout really helps...I hadn't planned on having that many side to side...luckily the DelMar only has 3 bays that need to be filled with only the center one of any size...

seeing the foam pouring out of the holes lessens my worries about dancing around the floor trying to stuff and hold the plugs in during the process

;-p


Thanks again...

...Ric

[timw]

Oh...ok thats what it is...When I foamed under my floor it was pretty chilly over here so I used a couple torpedo type propane heaters to warm things up. Used a tractor to tilt the bow way up and poured away..It was actually kinda fun..One thing that surprised me, was the heat that was given off, when this stuff kicked off....I found that making up small batches, was better than large ones..
Tim

[ricphoto]

Thanks Tim...

I'd planned on using the engine hoist to get the bow up and propped on a few tall boat stands (we don't have tractors in our yards over here on the west side ;-)

by small you mean? Marty mentioned 20oz...10 each...that seems like it would be manageable...did you go smaller/less?

...Ric

[timw]

Hey Ric,..I don't remember the exact amount I was mixing, But the first mix was to much and I couldn't get the whole amount poured thru the hole before it kicked off, so I wasted abunch..So I started mixing smaller untill I could pour the entire amount, and not have a bunch of foam "mushrooms in containers". As marty stated, you will need more containers than you think, as the little bit left in each will expand, and soon you have abunch of half foamed containers..oh ya , we have tractors, but no yards...acres..

good luck and have fun.

Tim

[Sammamish1]

I have 1 acre and 1 tractor, Kubota 2400. Not a lot of land but its 65 feet wide and seven stories tall at a 45% grade, and I don't like lugging everything up the hill by hand.

[Scott McDade]

Foaming with the deck removed

I have removed the cockpit floor of the Welike, and am just about ready to put down new 1/2" plywood. I've been planning to re-place the floor exactly as it had been done originally, without foam, but this discussion has me wondering. Does everybody foam these boats now -- I mean, are the benefits of foamed bilges that compelling? And if so, should I foam the voids between the stringers now, when everything is opened up? It seems like that would be a lot easier, except I'm not sure how you'd level the hardened foam. A rasp, I guess, would be easy enough.

[Helmar]

Hi Scott.

We have foamed many and No one has ever Not liked it.
In fact the comment made most was, I should have done this a long time ago.

Look back on this thread for the process, its really not hard and well worth the time and mess.

[Scott McDade]

Thanks, Joe. But the question for me is, should I do it now when the deck is off, or put the deck down, drill the holes, tip the boat and go through the rest of the process as described above? I spent a lot of time around the old Osprey plant in Sedro Woolley a few years back, and I noticed the guys foaming all the voids in the stringer grid before the deck went on. They got real good at pouring just enough foam that it expanded to just under the tops of the stringers, and if it was a 1/2" shy of the top they didn't worry about it. If it foamed over a bit, they'd hit it with a rasp after it cured. It was a pretty simple process, but it did usually leave a little gap between the top of the cured foam and the bottom of the deck sole. Is that an issue? Do you think the foam really needs to compress up against the sole to get the full advantage of the foam?

[timw]

Hey scott, my 2cents worth, put your floor down first..the foam should expand in to all the nooks and crannys. Just thinking about pouring foam into a hull with out a deck down, sounds like way to much clean up and added labor...Why not take full advantage of the foam helping support the new deck?...