Seafair Gets Repaired

[Tim McCrain]

Thanks for the info Tim, good to know.

[Ronald64]

Great info Tim. Frustrating to watch a fishery collapse before your eyes due to reasons that could be avoided. To be blamed for it and to get treated like a criminal by the Fish and Game is an additional spit in the eye. What's up with that? For me it's been 2 years since I had a fish like the one in your pic come over the side of my boat. I am hearing good things about the Salmon runs this year compared to the last 2 years, however the water situation in the Sacramento and Delta system is very tenuous. The farmers need it in the central valley..and more and more of it...to grow food. Fish need it to live period...what do you do (that's an exhasperation not a question). You are kind of damned if you do damned if you don't. In the meantime the fishery suffers. I would like to believe the numbers they are putting out there but the scientist in me tends to be skeptical. Both of the counting methods and the people, read special interest groups, doing the counting.

Okay back to boating. Guy didn't show up today to work on the Seafair. At least there is THAT I can count on.

Ron

[McSkagit Tim Jones]

Cause of the failure?

What was the cause of the hull failure?

I've seen poorly repaired (prepped)hull repairs peel apart from hydraulic action of fast moving water. Never underestimate the power of water!

Looks like a skookum repair. Good photos!

Tim

[Ronald64]

What was the cause of the hull failure?

I've seen poorly repaired (prepped)hull repairs peel apart from hydraulic action of fast moving water. Never underestimate the power of water!

Looks like a skookum repair. Good photos!

Tim

Ha ha..had to google Skookum...Wikipedia has a good definitiion....Thanks Tim....I feel good now that I know what Skookum means...
I think you are right on as to how it failed. There was original gel coat underneath the flap on the exterior that peeled away. It was very smooth. had not even been sanded let alone ground. Once the flap on the outside let go the water pressure on the interior parts of the old repair caused them to fail and let go. It's at that point I put the Mayday call to the CG. I was out by Alcatraz Island when we started taking on water.....fast. :surprised1:

Ron

[McSkagit Tim Jones]

Plight of the Sport Fishery

Sorry for being vague.....we launch at the River where the Muckleshoots launch the Gillnet Fleet.They are "Co-managers" of this river system but are now pretty much doing what they want with Crab ,Salmon and Shrimp.
We get a few weeks in July/Aug. with weekend openers.After a few weeks each year,the Wash Dept of Fisheries announces a "weak run" with emergency closures soon after.
Trouble is ,the Duwamish /Elliott Bay fish now show up in mid August when the Tribes are again allowed to "Test Fish" with the Gillnets.
I see the nets hung at High Tide,then as we return 6 hours later(our open water is roughly the Middle of Puget Sound,maybe 4-5 miles away) the tide goes out and we see a Wall of dead fish baking in the Sun.
Other times the Nets get Lingcod and non-targeted schools of Salmon which is allowed to be kept as "Bycatch".
The Tribes even net for Steelhead and clean up on Silvers thru the Oct /Nov. months with numbers of fish caught reaching 10,000 fish in a single night.
Being "interrogated" by our Fisheries officers and treated like criminals has led many away from the Sport ......I know as my family once had the small cart launch on Whidbey Island and we heard it as people returned.

Lately the WDF Fisheries Boats have been roaring up to people full blast until almost on you,then they come along and want to see your gear,your tackle box and then ask "where you hid the fish?".
I know a lot of people and can`t seem to mention any of this without a similar saga being told to me from another........
Having supported my family with $ made from selling and building Sportfishing boats ,I felt obligated (at one time more so than now....) to bring people into this recreational activity.
It`s getting hard to justify the expense of this sport as it is now reaching a bottom.
There used to be 26 Boathouses with Rentals and over 3000 rental boats JUST on Elliott Bay.
In the 90`s,the State bought up the Mid-sound Boathouses and fenced them off.Pt.No Pt. ,McConnells at Mukilteo,Bush Pt . and a few others are among the former Rental/Launch locations.Nobody to lose an income,Then nobody to sue over bad manageent seemed to be the motivation,they certainly didn`t restore or try to revive these once famous places.
The Canadians have a dollar amt PER fish they shoot to generate from the Tourism and Fishing fleets and they once figured a single Sport Caught Fish could make them $200.00.Safeway pays $2 per lb. to the Salmon the Mucklehoots harvest for this once mighty Resource.
The Food ,Ice ,Licences,Tackle and Fuel bought by boaters used to generate alot of income for many small business and cities.Not to mention Boat building,repair and Noat/Motor parts....losing the places to shop,with those that remain stock little anymore.
I don`t want to know what my first fish will cost overall this year.
OK ,I`ll stop now....I know I left out alot of other reasons the fishing is so bad....And sorry to take a Thread off subject to those who keep track.
I have heard the Sacremento Kings are huge with 40,000 going up that river in the past.(back to California based fishing /boating topic....)
TM

The plight of the sport fishery is terrible.

I used to fish Blackmouth off the west side of Orcas starting about the first of November...through February. I had my spot that locals refered to as Tim's Point for yours truely. I noted a decline in the fish about 1987 or thereabouts. Then one morning I went to Tim's Point and found a Purse Seiner pulling in his net. Never caught another fish on the west side of Orcas!

Last time I fished that area was 4 or 5 years ago. I had been reading all the fishing citations in the local blotter, so was expecting to be boarded by fisheries. I arrived at my spot in the early afternoon and scanned the horizon for the fisheries boat. About 45 minutes later, another sport fishing boat arrived and began trolling. 45 minutes after that I looked west and here comes this very fast boat from Point Disney on Waldron Island.

My boat, my red 23 Glasply set up for towing, looked fairly offical with Coast Guard type stripes on the bow and radar and all the electronics. The fisheries boat chose the other boat to board. I trolled south and watched the boarding with binocs. A half hour later I rounded the point were the coast line of Orcas turns south. When I lost visual on the fisheries boat they were still along side the other sport boat. Probably threw the book at those poor guys!

Fishing just isn't fun when you feel that you have to take your attorney with you.....

In my assistance towing, salvage and rescue career, I've salvaged many commercial fishing boats.... mostly gill netters that sunk because they were overloaded. I have personally discarded TONS of rotting salmon.

I think we can point the finger at fisheries for the disappearance of the local King salmon. That and over-development of the Salish watershed.......

Not sure what the fix is? Busting sport fisherman isn't the answer!:Police1:

My two cents worth...

McSkagit

[Ronald64]

Let it out!

Sounds like you guys have a lot of frustration to vent up there. (my favorite icon)....I was going to apologize for this thread going in this direction but I think it's good to talk about it and let others know what's going on. I am very interested and didn't know this was happening. I know there have always been issues with the tribes' rights but sounds like it's getting pretty frustrating. So I'm not sorry. There are probably boards and forums for this stuff but our love for boats goes hand in hand with sport fishing. Good stuff guys.

Ron

[Tim_Mattson]

State of the Salmon....Today`s rant.

Ok , Seems like more than a few of us have seen the same thing.
The Sound(Not just the Rivers.....) also gets netted by the larger Purse Seiners in late Sept. to Oct......as the larger Immature Feeders or "Blackmouth" swarm in behind the larger Mature Adults ,basically same fish ,just not "Ripe".
They mix in the Silvers and are a sure sign the Adults have left the Feeding Zones and all is clear to grow Fat on Winter feed.
Shorter days makes these Fish a Blast to catch ,and not migrating and being young ,they fight like mad.A 20 Blackmouth will seem like a 40 lb fish in the Adult stage.They also bite good since daylight is scarce.......
Well those fish now seem to disapear as the Purse Seiners scoop the Silvers and even Chums.......again ,catching our Next year`s crop.We see them leave early in the AM if you launch in the dark and get there early enough.Behind Blake Ilsand and also during the Foggy months of Sept /Oct which hide this other cause to the fisheries demise.
Knowing these are fish that Hatched,spent a year in freshwater,made it to the Ocean ,Returned ,but are Harvested again as "Bycatch."
Brings up anther point.
We must write down immature fish as being a "K" or King,implying it is mature.The state creel reports will tout all "K"s as mature returners.....even though some of us see the fish we catch early in the seasons are actually smaller Blackmouth with smaller sex organs,either small eggs or little sperm sacs.
The checkers at the ramp will even admit most days we see only a small handful of Mature Ripe Adults.They say the numbers are low ,but they are actually even lower in reality.
Would you pick an "Immature " apple?
We used to go to Canada and fish for the same fish we would later catch down home,but they fatten up as they get here,then sliming up and darkening as they hit the Freshwater Brine.
A degree or Two of Temp change makes my eggs pop earlier than if I didin`t add a small heater to my tank....and the same goes for when the salmon react to the Cue for spawning.

It is hard to "Farm" a fish since it swims thru other country`s waters , or even thru our own commercial fleet.
Back in the late 80`s ,Canada did a protest and tried to form a Wall of Nets to blockade our river`s fish in protest of our US Commercial taking of Frazer Kings(Taken in the Straits under the guise of a "Sockeye" fishery....oh look ,50 lb kings!)
We caught many fish those years that were de-scaled by the nets as the only returners were small slender Kings,usually the ones with Big Tapeworms,(ALL KIngs have them mind you.....)
Those spawned smaller offspring 4 years later and we saw many Fully mature Kings that were Ultra Short,ultra small ,and in fewer and fewer numbers.
Trouble with nets is they Kill only the largest of any one run.The Bigger fish yield bigger stronger Adults.
The "Quality Apple" is what I like to see ,not a body count I can hang my hat on like the State ,and in larger part the Federal agency that has the Yearly "North of Falcon Meetings" where Seasons and yearly regs are put out.
The former Fisheries and Game cops have retired or moved on so the new breed of Law Degree holding officers are either Fish or Game but not doing it all as before.
They bring an attitude that really is hard not to bounce back at them,at which point they threaten "to haul you away" or "will write you up"......
At least they don`t wear Camo out there....one guy was deemed "Rambo" as he took pics from Shore,the parking lot ,etc and then met you at the ramp to write both you and your buddy for "Sharing" Crab or not writing the catch before plopping the pot again.Ever write with slimy hands on wet Paper?.Or wear a License tag (must be visible)while on a 50 mph boat?
Fail to mail that paper and you get a $10 Fine added to next year`s license cost....and oh yeah ,we have a split season so you get two chances to forget that catch card.
Can`t even buy a license without feeling guilty.
Would like to see a graph of number of fishing licenses sold over the past 20 years.
TM
ps TrSexton We are on a list with a local hatchery that had a school program for many years.....my buddie`s name stayed on the list so he kept going back when the hatchery called to say "the fish are ready...."
He made up his own program and we place 50 in several schools hallways where the kids get to learn about the critters.My batch replaces the ones they always kill from neglect.These eggs are deemed surplus after so many make it to Issaquah Creek each year....too many in one stream makes for smaller adults later.Our stream never had salmon,at least in the past 100 years,so we are hoping to take pressure off of the other rivers.
And Ron obviously has never been to Canada....where "Skookum" was tagged to any worthwhile Boat.
Really done now....honest.

[Ronald64]

Interior got 6 more layers

Last weekend the interior portion of the repair got 6 layers of cloth vacuum bagged down. Went camping with the family and missed the one part I am most interested in seeing. I was going to get a pic of the bag but the light was funky so I decided to unload the trailer first. Well Jerry came over and started pulling everything off while I wasn't looking so I had to quickly get pics. I didn' get there fast enough to show the bag itself.
They laid 6 layers of cloth and resin at once. Then a layer of dacron material against the resin, then 3 layers of an absorbent cloth to soak up the excess resin as it is sucked through the roving. Then the vaccuum bag is sealed on top of that all and about 4 lb of vac put on it overnight. Pretty cool process. It's the way to go to get all those layers of cloth done at once with no bubbles. Here's the pics. FYI..the pics are pretty high res so you can enlarge them to really dig into the image and see the details clearly. Here's the crappy pics withthe funky light...I'll try harder next time.






He also put some more mill fiber on the exterior. That will get ground down before another 6 layers are vaccuum bagged on the outside.







I am pretty happy so far.

Ron

[Ronald64]

5 more layers on the outside

5 more layers were vaccuum bagged onto the outside yesterday. Got a little better look at the process. Think I'll be using this method in the future. So far the guy I hired has had 3 different people come and work on the boat. The guy he had do the interior was a glass artist..great work. This guy did a really nice lay up but was struggling to get the vacuum bag on. I would have complained and been more worried but when I actually saw the lay up job I was thinking he didn't really need to vacuum bag it anyway. I will say the exterior is a 2 man job trying to hold the stuff up and he was by himself so I tried to help. Also that double sided putty tape is hard to get to stick on antifoul paint....FYI Here are some pics:

First the 5 layers are laid up. Then dacron "release" material.





Then the absorbent material. The vaccuum bag is laid onto double sided sealing tape.

[Ronald64]

Then the vacuum is applied and was kept on there overnight.







The guy then ground down the other side. Tomorrow they will vacuum bag 8 layers down on the port side. Jerry is making glass braces that will be glassed into the back transom...don't ask...and then he will do a few touch ups back there and deal with a hairline crack along the chine. Almost there.



Hopefully I won't see these much longer





Ron

[Tim McCrain]

That's an intersting process Ron, thanks for sharing taking the time to share it with us. Pretty cool that they can apply that many layers at once, even though applying the vac bag takes some finesse it sure seems like a time-saver overall.

Keep us posted, and we want to see shots on the water!

Tim

[McSkagit Tim Jones]

Vacuum Bagging

Never done the vacuum bag process. Looks interesting! Thanks for all the great pics and explaination. Soon no spider cracks or spider webs....

Tim

[Ronald64]

It's been a while since I updated progress on Kilshannig. I have been posting on the California board but if you don't follow there I'll bring you guys up to date over the next few posts. Here is the finished surface of the interior side of the repair. This is the starboard side where the break happened.
P.S. Do you Norwegian guys know where the name Starboard originated? You should. I read it in "North by Northwestern" by your man Sig Hansen.....I digress...



They used 4 oz cloth with a very tight weave. Apparently it's the cloth they use on aircraft.









8 more layers went down on the port side interior to even up the stiffness, reinforce and put my mind at ease.



Ron

[Ronald64]

I had to make a new cuddy cabin header since the old one broke.




Since I was varnishing anyway I decided to sand and revarnish the cuddy cabin bulkheads since they are out. I used McKloskey Marine spar and my HVLP gun. First time I have used a spray gun for varnish and man what a difference. It is the only way to go. Mirror finish and used less than a 1/4 cup of mineral spirits for the entore cleanup. I put one coat of varnish on the header with a brush and it took more than 2 cups of solvent to get the brush clean...and it's never really clean. I'm sticking with the guns from now on. Better finish and better for the environment. Sorry no pics of those yet but....

Jerry's finished his work and Bill and I went back to doing grinding and glassing ourselves. I can't stand it anymore and had to get back to doing some work on my baby.
There were a couple of cracks that appeared on the exterior parts of the transom. Around the cracks the glass was soft so I decided not to pussyfoot around and really grind it out till I got to good glass...I ain't messing around anymore PERIOD. Spent 30 min and OMG this is what I found









Friggin HOLES!!

Well I was excited about this was pretty aggressive with the grinder till I got it all back to good glass.

Ron

[Ronald64]

I HAVE to give a big shout out to Sven at Svendsen's Marine Chandlery and Boat Yard in Alameda California. They have always, and still continue to treat me and Bill right.

Bill went over there to get the supplies for glassing the transom on both Kilshannig and Day Tripper. We were going to vacuum bag Kilshannig. Well Sven gets all of the vacuum bagging materials out for Bill and then asks about the project. Sven refused to sell us the vacuum bagging stuff and said we'd be wasting money. He said when we get ready to do Day Tripper (Our '62 Dorsett San Juan) he'll sell us the supplies but he wouldn't do it for our job. He mentioned that with all of the edges and corners the vacuum bagging wouldn't work well and would frustrate the hell out of us. He said it is the best method for a flat or concave surface but for the surface like Kilshannig fuggedaboutit. Sven told Bill that he used to have a Seafair and loved it. He then spent about an hour and a half giving Bill lessons and tips on glassing. Sven said on Day Tripper we should use the Vinyl Ester resin since it's cheaper and just as strong as epoxy. He mentioned that the epoxy is good for smaller repairs but too expensive for larger projects and that vinyl ester is easier to work with and much stronger than polyester. So we got all our stuff for both boats (except the vinyl ester resin) for $208. He gave us a good deal. We got about 8 yds of three different types of cloth and he charged us for 2 yds. The 17 oz biaxial/max stuff is thick. We also got some 3/4 oz mat and woven cloth.







Mixed up some resin with 403 mill fiber to make a paste and filled the holes. sanded it out the morning before layup. Here's some pics of the patched holes. Looks rough since I hadn't sanded yet but that 403/resin stuff is the bomb. Filled the gaps nicely and is hard as steel.







Ron