'58 Bryant Rest near complete

[landlocked charlie]

As I near the end of the restoration of this 22' 1958 Bryant, I am eager to get her into the water. However since this is my first resto project, and I am unfamiliar with these older engines, I am having difficulty identifying and locating the necessary parts to hook up the push/pull steering cable (Vollrath) to the front of the engine bracket. The outboard is a 1960 75 hp Johnson electric start.

Could someone offer any tips on what I need to do this, and perhaps also advise me where to get these parts? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, and hope you're all having a great summer.
Charlie McCrum

[BrianVic]

Its called a clamp block

Charlie,
See photo - Teleflex calls it a "clamp block"

Google that term and you will find various models. Make sure you use some type if bedding compound to seal the bolt holes that go through the transom. The boat I am restoring did not, and used zinc plated steel bolts that rusted away. Water intruded into the plywood transom core, and it rotted down below. Teleflex makes a stainless steel model.

[Helmar]

Look for that Used on some of the used boat yards as they are quite spendy if I remember correctly.

You will also need to get a collar and a ball fitting for the end of the steering cable.

I will go look to see if I can find a picture of that for you.

[Tim McCrain]

Charlie,

In addition to the clamp block that Brian showed the photo of, you'll need another part to mount the cable, basically a pipe with threads on the exterior of one end. The cable's active end is inserted through the pipe, the cable sheath end threads onto the pipe and the pipe is clamped in the clamp block.

Attaching the cable's active end to the motor's steering bracket can be accomplished either with "factory" hardware like Helmar showed you, which might be hard to find, or by a simple combination of a stainless bolt, nut, spacers and washers. The configuration of your motor's steering bracket was designed for a "quick disconnect" setup, in which a bracket was attached to either a push-pull cable or a cable / pulley system and was attached to the steering bracket by "push-in-and-turn" hardware (thus the shape of the hole in the steering bracket) The raised bosses on either side of the hole indexed the bracket in place.

In the photos below:

Homelite 1 - A setup for attachment to a Homelite. You can see how the cable threads onto the "pipe", how the pipe is clamped into the clamp block and how the clamp block is mounted to the transom.

Homelite 2 - The end of the steering cable. This style has a hole in the end which allows it to be bolted directly to the motor or to a gimbal bracket which is in turn bolted to the motor. This particular cable end does not need a gimbal bracket since the cable end itself swivels, you can see the greasy black line on the cable end where the end swivels. If the end of the cable does not have a built-in swivel, the gimbal bracket allows the motor to be tilted without twisting the cable too much. (In this photo the Homelite attachment bracket is still bolted to the cable end, you won't need this part.)

Merc 1 - This shows the Merc setup, where the "pipe" that the cable sheath threads onto is integrated into the motor's transom clamp assembly rather than being a separate piece. I included this only so the next photo wouldn't be confusing.

Merc 2 - This shows the style of cable end that does not have a hole for a bolt, nor does the end of the cable swivel like the Homelite setup above. Instead, the end of the cable has a groove machined into it to accept the two piece clamp shown, the clamp has an attachment hole and swivels around the end of the cable. (This photo also shows the link rod between the cable end clamp and the motor, you won't need this part for your setup) The gimbal bracket that Helmar showed you is made for this type of cable end, in his photo you can clearly see the two piece cable end clamp.

I hope this made some kind of sense and was helpful!

Tim

PS It would be helpful if you could post a close up of the end of the steering cable so we can see exactly what is needed to attach it to the steering bracket. I have a couple of the clamp block setups that I would part with at a reasonable price, if I can see exactly what the end of your cable looks like I may be able to assemble a complete package for you.

[Straycat]

Nice!

[landlocked charlie]

To Brian Vic, Helmar, and Tim McCrain, thank you very much for your advice thus far.
Tim, if you would be able to put together a complete package, that would be fantastic! And, of course, I would be willing to reimburse you for whatever you would consider fair for your time, advise, parts, and mailing. It's a real challenge to come up with some of the parts over here where so few older boats and parts exist.

I'm attaching a couple more photos of the cable end and one more of the engine steering bracket.

Thanks again, Charlie McCrum

[landlocked charlie]

Oops. Here's one more I meant to attach.
Charlie

[Tim McCrain]

Charlie,

A few questions:

1) Does the end of your cable swivel? (If you put a screwdriver in the hole in the cable end, can you get a little twisting movement out of it without the crimped area of the cable end moving also?)

2) What is the diameter of the hole in the cable end?

3) What size is the threaded end of the cable? (3/8 x 24, 1/2 x 20, etc.)

4) How long is the threaded portion of the cable end?

5) How far above the top of the transom is the hole in the steering bracket?

Thanks,

Tim

[landlocked charlie]

Hello Tim, and happy 4th!
Hopefully you're out in this gorgeous weather somewhere in a boat.
I'll answer your questions in order here.

The cable does swivel freely. However not at the point where it is crimped right behind the hole and threads at the end. Instead, if you grasp the cable back where the pipe thread cap screws onto the length of pipe you have referred to (see attached photo where the red garden tool handle is positioned on the cable) then the inner cable rotates very freely independent of the outer cable jacket.

The diameter hole just behind the threads at the cable end is 3/8".

The thread size on the cable end is 1/2 x 20.

Then the threaded portion of the cable tail end is 5/8" long with another 1/8" or so of groove behind that.

From the top of the transom to the center of the engine steering bracket hole is 3 3/4".

Thanks a lot for your help Tim. This is a great old boat and we can't wait to get her on the water. Just haven't been able to locate any foiks locally who know these old set-ups. There are some gorgeous, big lakes up in this country.

Hope you're having a great Fourth.
Charlie

[Tim McCrain]

Hey Charlie,

Yes, having a great 4th. It's an awesome day to take a boat out, which means it's an awful day to take a boat out, if you know what I mean. I've spent the day working in the yard and shop, far away from boat launch madness.

Thanks for the additional info, I'll dig around in the shop and see what I have that might work. One more question: Due to the height of the steering bracket from the transom top edge, it might be a good idea to use the clamp block to raise the cable up so that the action of the cable is closer to horizontal. I did that with the Homelite installation on the Sabrecraft and it really made a difference in the feel of the steering. I'm not using that setup any more so I don't need the mounting plate I made for it.

So's here's what you need to do next: Turn the wheel all the way one direction, it doesn't matter which. Now turn it all the way the other direction, counting the number of turns it takes to go lock-to-lock. Now turn it back the other direction 1/2 of the number you just counted. Leave the wheel in that position, which is the center of your steering travel. Insert a small bolt through the cable end and the steering bracket hole to temporarily locate the cable to the steering bracket. Now, with the motor straight ahead, do you have enough slack in the cable and distance from the side of the splashwell to raise the cable up so that it is flat horizontal from the steering bracket to the threaded collar on the end of the cable sheathing? If not, can you get the threaded collar say, halfway between the transom and the steering bracket?

I hope your 4th was good too,

Tim

[landlocked charlie]

Tim, thanks for the all your help.

Yes, with the hole in the cable end bolted to the hole in the center of the engine steering bracket, there is enough room in the splashwell and play in the cable to bring the moving end of the cable (back to the threaded collar on the end of the sheathed cable) up to a position that is parallel with the top of the transom. In other words, to a true horizontal position. Obviously, there must be some sort of ball joint type fitting where the cable assembly joins the motor bracket in order to allow for continuous steering as the motor bracket swings in an arc from side to side as it is steered.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that you may have the parts needed. I have to admit it strikes me as nothing short of admirable that someone I haven't even met would be inclined to be of so much help. I think only someone with a true love of older boats and open water!

Charlie McCrum

[landlocked charlie]

Hi Tim, and thanks again for all your help here.

Yes, when I center the hole on the end of the steering cable with the hole on the front of the engine steering bracket there is enough play in the cable to bring the moveable end of the cable (from threaded/hole end to the threaded collar on the end of the cable sheathing) to a complete horizontal position. In other words, parallel with but elevated above the top of the transom. Hope this helps. I'm assuming that there is some sort of ball joint mechanism at the link with the engine bracket that allows the engine bracket to swing in its arc as is it steered right to left.

It's a real pleasure talking with someone I've never met before who is willing to hang in there through all these details. Must be someone who loves old boats and open water!

Charlie

[landlocked charlie]

Hi Tim, I've tried to post a reply to your last message of 8:35 pm July 4. I think I may have duplicated it actually, as it was not showing up on my end. Let me know if you have not received it.

[Tim McCrain]

Charlie,

Your post showed up fine, both of them. I'm glad to help, I've been on the receiving end of lots of help and advice myself. That's one of the reasons this club and site are here, we'll get ya on the water soon.

Now that I know what I'm working with give me a day or three and we'll figure out something. I'll dig around in the shop and post here soon.

Tim

[landlocked charlie]

Hi Tim, hope you had a great weekend. It's great to finally have some summer weather here in the NW.

Just wanted to let you know what kind of computer genius you're dealing with on this end. The reason you have two matching replies to your second to last response is because I thought I was just supposed to keep scrolling down and down and down for each new post, when in fact a tiny page 2 number in the lower right hand corner meant that I needed to turn to pg. 2 to continue to keep up with the posts. I only hope you can believe that I am better with wood restorative work and such than with computers. So, yes I do have all the posts on my end,too.

Just wanted to let you know that I am receiving your posts, and wondering if you've had any luck with the parts you mentioned. Not meaning to hurry you in any.

Thanks, and best regards, Charlie