Help... Fair Price for a "fair" (not turnkey) Bell Boy?

Hi All,

Today we went to look at a Bell Boy 1957 14" runabout. The motor is 1969 25 HP Evinrude. The trailer is a 1959 MONO (that is off of the title, could not find any identification near the tongue).

The owner is a very sincere and agreeable individual but does not consider himself a "boatsman" to use his terms. He seems open to discuss our mechanics findings before we settle on a price. We are TOTAL novices, attempting to purchase our first classic boat. I have diligently attempted internet research, but now that I have seen the boat in person still don't feel like I have a good grip on what I am looking at.

The overall condition of the boat (minus motor) is okay. Not fair, but not great. Hull is strong, no major defects. Transom good. Looks like one of the previous owners made some modifications on seating, and to the floor (to make it flat) and attempted to repaint the inside and the trailer. The modifications look....okay, but not professional. The metal hardware is very pitted from salt. So, aesthetics, okay, not great.

The motor appears to be problematic. We are waiting for a diagnosis and estimate but it is showing signs of a possible drive shaft problem, stalls out, slips out of gear, etc, etc. The battery may need to be replaced or charged the night before using (?) Gear box, levers and cables are all useable. Line that connects gas tank to engine is bad, needs to be replaced. Possible choke issues, still TBD. The veteran vinatge motor mechanic we are using did not seem encouraged by the initial "examination".

The paint job on the trailer is peeling, rust is popping up through (several) previous paint jobs. Bearings are okay for now (according to mechanic).
Although the boat has not been used for a couple of years, the owner feels this is a well preserved turn key boat. We could not turn anything today (even with the mechanic) that wasn't fraught with problems. It looks to me like it is a well patched and bandaged small fishing boat with some issues but also with lots of potential to come back as a small classic.

Any advice would be much appreciated. We do like this boat and are okay with putting some money into repair, we just want to make sure we are starting at a reasonable base price given the current condition.

Thanks.

[Marty Loken (Norseboater)]

The Bell Boy runabout

Lauryn -

As often happens in these situations, boats look better in photos than in person...especially when you start examining the small details.

For the potential price that you and I discussed earlier, the boat, motor and trailer should have been in better condition than what you're describing. You are clearly disappointed--partly with the boat/trailer/motor package, but also because you were hoping to find a near-perfect first boat today.

Sounds like you should keep looking. There are a lot of nice boats out there, and you'll find one that comes closer to being the turnkey package you're seeking.

If you keep watching the message board, especially Classic Boat Sightings and the Classifieds (together with craigslist), I'm sure you'll find something that isn't "just okay."

- Marty

Thanks, Marty.

Dissapointed? Some. More confused than disspointed. This is the kind of boat we are looking for. And it doesn't have to be be perfect. Hard to believe .... but we would actually like to learn how to repaint the trailer, replace hardware, etc. And we are fine with engine repairs, if we can establish a reasonable base price that would allow extra $$$ for (what appears to be significant) repairs. Just very confused on how to arrive at the right starting price, whatever that is. How do you find that "blue book" type of base line with classics?

[Marty Loken (Norseboater)]

Fair Prices

Lauryn -

As you've discovered, there is no Blue Book for old boats...and if there were, most sellers would be disappointed--or at least sobered up--by the hard numbers. Boats like the one you looked at are probably the most difficult to value, since the particular model isn't wildly collectible, and overall condition of the package is a mixed bag.

Let's start by breaking down the three elements...

Small, old trailers that cost maybe $400 new (back in the day), and are roadworthy but need work to keep them from rusting out, are rarely worth more than $200. There are a handful of unique 1950's trailers that are worth more, mainly due to their collectible fender designs--you can pay $300 just for some rusty old fenders from those models--but the trailer you looked at is commonplace and maybe worth $150, with title.

If the 25 Evinrude looks cosmetically clean and original, with decent paint and decals--and it isn't badly corroded from saltwater use--it might be worth about $600 once the repairs are accomplished and it's running well. (Again, it's not an especially collectible model.) I've paid up to $1,200 for an electric-start vintage Johnson or Evinrude 25hp when they were in extremely original condition and mechanically flawless, but this may not be one of those motors. So, without having seen the motor, you might want to start the purchase discussion by deducting your repair estimate off of about $600.

The Bell Boy is really tricky. We rarely see the particular model, but that doesn't make it "rare" in terms of value or collectibility. It's a utility model that was primarily sold to fisherman. Some previous owner added the back-to-back upholstered seats, and from the photos I saw, overall appearance of the boat is good...as these things go. Some corrosion on deck hardware comes with the territory; you can remove and rechrome the stuff if the pitting isn't too deep; you can buy new hardware that's available in vintage patterns (for about the cost of rechroming), or you can learn to live with the hardware and enjoy its "patina."

If the transom and cockpit floors are solid (no soft spots when you tromp around inside the boat); if condition of the upholstery is okay; if the boat is still in its original gelcoat and it appears that it can be buffed to a nice shine...well, then the boat itself might be worth about $350-$450. We have to remember that "turnkey" means "functional," not "perfectly restored" or "flawless."

So, what it really comes down to is whether you bond with the boat, and if it satisfies your goal of finding a first boat that'll get you out on the water this summer with reliability, and help introduce you to the world of vintage boating. If you look forward to doing some paint work or dealing with other cosmetic issues, then finding an "okay, not perfect" boat is really good news: You won't have to pay for perfection, and there will be things you can do to the Bell Boy that'll help make it yours in the full sense...giving you pride that you were part of its restoration, and also potentially increasing the boat's value if and when you decide to take on a slightly larger classic.

Sorry this isn't very precise information, but in the world of classic-glass boats we're all just winging it, pricewise.

- Marty

[Steve_Kiesel]

How do you find that "blue book" type of base line with classics? That's a tough one to answer. Guess it depends on how bad you want a particular boat. The best way to determine your base line for glassics, would be to keep looking at different boats. After a few weeks of looking and comparing, you will be able to better determine if the asking price is in the ballpark.

Here's one I just seen on Craigslist.

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/1107989370.html

Marty & Steve,

Thanks very much. That gives us a level place to start.

One last question about Bell Boy. If one was to compare the quality of their smaller boats from that period, would Bell Boy be considered one of the better manufacturers, or about comparable to the other brands?

One other last question Any comments on the Bell Boy Ballerina?

[Marty Loken (Norseboater)]

Bell Boy Vs. Others

Lauryn -

Bell Boy's quality was about the same as others of the period. They used wooden stringers under floors in many of their smaller boats, and the stringers sometimes need to be replaced, but if the floor feels solid you're probably okay.

The Ballerina is a sportier model, in terms of style, but value isn't much different that what you're looking at. The most collectible smaller runabout Bell Boy made was the tail-finned Banshee model, but Banshee project boats don't seem to go for much more than any other smaller runabouts that need work.

The 16-foot runabout that Steve spotted on craigslist would be great, if you could afford that kind of price. It's stylish and truly "turnkey" if the seller's description is accurate; it comes with a more collectible motor than the Bell Boy; the trailer's been worked on; it's probably worth twice what the '57 Bell Boy should sell for, and it should hold its value if well-maintained. I'd offer less than the asking price, assuming my budget allowed consideration of $2,000-plus boats, and just see what happens...but if you really want a boat package for $1,000 or less, you'll have to resist looking at the Whitehouse.

Good luck!

- Marty

[Tim_Mattson]

Pricing and Values.....

Hey All,
Had to chirp in here,prices are something I`ve been asked about frequently and have been quite schooled on.
One thing to remember is the old boats are now selling for what they once sold for new.Imagine todays hulls doing that someday.......okay so that won`t ever happen.
Old boats are like old trucks,they can hold there value if truly functional.Some do go up because of demand but face it,boats have more of a personal demand than the true rare vehicle but on any given day,a boat can fetch more than they are really worth.
The NADA blue book says a mid 80`s Boston Whaler is worth $3600.00 or so but actually they can sell for 3-4 times that due to cult status.As Marty said .there isn`t a book for old boats.
If buying ,I`d look away from major cities like Seattle and San Francisco
as you get more for your money in rural settings.
A finished hull will usually have more hours into than dollars in some cases ,and buying an unknown motor is usually not worth it at today`s shop rates..... and now parts have risen too.
Having worked at a builder ,I also know to fab a hull would cost more than they get for the once mass produced boats.
With builders dropping quickly,demand should produce a need for more hulls but the old ones were built tough so they can withstand a couple different owners and motors,todays hulls go to the dump once worn enough.
Keep circling the water ,good deals are around on boats with moving or evicted owners.
Try to find the deal where you get the motor boat and trailer for the value of one of those 3......then you`ll always be ahead unless a true catastrophy.
Tim M

Lauryn -

Bell Boy's quality was about the same as others of the period. They used wooden stringers under floors in many of their smaller boats, and the stringers sometimes need to be replaced, but if the floor feels solid you're probably okay.

The Ballerina is a sportier model, in terms of style, but value isn't much different that what you're looking at. The most collectible smaller runabout Bell Boy made was the tail-finned Banshee model, but Banshee project boats don't seem to go for much more than any other smaller runabouts that need work.

The 16-foot runabout that Steve spotted on craigslist would be great, if you could afford that kind of price. It's stylish and truly "turnkey" if the seller's description is accurate; it comes with a more collectible motor than the Bell Boy; the trailer's been worked on; it's probably worth twice what the '57 Bell Boy should sell for, and it should hold its value if well-maintained. I'd offer less than the asking price, assuming my budget allowed consideration of $2,000-plus boats, and just see what happens...but if you really want a boat package for $1,000 or less, you'll have to resist looking at the Whitehouse.

Good luck!

- Marty

This boat would work although I suspect we are about 300. shy of what he might take take as a best offer. Might be time to sell the kayak, or the child. Is this what happens when you get bit by the classic insanity?

Thanks for this referral. I guess it doesn't hurt to ask what he'll do on the price, so I did.

Lauryn -

As you've discovered, there is no Blue Book for old boats...and if there were, most sellers would be disappointed--or at least sobered up--by the hard numbers.

Ah...well this has not turned out to be a happy ending. The owner of the 1957 Bell Boy is not willing to be sobered up and is still feeling quite firm that his boat (which now needs 475. in motor related repairs in addition to the cosmetic stuff) is right up there $$$$ wise with similar boats that are turn key and well preserved. I'm becoming increasingly uncomfortable with all the "unknowns" and potential safety issues and have decided not to take this boat.

So, it has been a good learning experience, but also a bit of an expensive learning experience: the fee to the mechanic to diagnose the engine problems, the cost of two ferry trips with the boat, and the loss of two full days of driving 5 hours round trip only to end up still boatless on whidbey...

(Yes, I would like a little cheese with that whine

Thanks for all your helpful suggestions. I promise not to put y'all through this on the next one .

[Nomad55]

"Thanks for all your helpful suggestions. I promise not to put y'all through this on the next one ."

That's just one of the benefits of this forum and I know 1st hand how eager the people here are to help.

I know that you are looking for a turnkey boat but there is a 1959 "PINK" and gray Skagit, possible skimaster, on Craigs list Seattle. No engine or trailer and has a soft spot in the floor. If the transome is ok you could use the boat this season and have the floor done next winter. Price $50.00 There are a number of engines and controls on CL as well. We have a almost new trailer that you would be more than welcome to borrow to get home and run it around to power her up.

Also spotted a 1964 1964- 19 foot SaberCraft. Light blue & white
80hp Mercury, 18 gal Fuel Tank
fish finder, trolling plate Trailer & spare tire included
$1300
Call or e-mail for pictures or questions 206-246-2963



Edit. If I had anymore driveway left I would have filled it with the "PINK" Skagit.

[Steve_Kiesel]

I know the feeling Lauryn. I looked at over six boats last year before I found the one I wanted. Like you, I wanted to get something I could start using right away. Mine needs a lot of little things fixed, but nothing that can't wait while I use it. Mostly cosmetic stuff.

Like Marty said earlier, they always look good in the photos. But then you get there, and think to yourself, this guy must be on drugs or something. Half the fun is looking. Plus this is the right time of the year to start your search.

Also watch the Portland Craigslist. If you see something that looks promising, post a note on the forum to see if anyone in the area can stop by to check the overall condition, and maybe take some more pictures. I found my boat in California, a couple people offered to that without me even asking. There are a lot of really nice helpful folks on the different boat forums. Good luck in your search.