Boating trip No 2

With the weather looking to be really nice i thought I would venture out today with the wife to Lake Sammamish for our second attempt (just got home). With the shift cable attachment piece replaced and the new starter installed I was feeling good. Saturday I hooked the hose up to it and it started great, idled nice (thou not as low I would like) and shifted fine.

Today we hook up and head down. boat gets launched with no issues. go to start it up, no issues. put it in geat at the dock to double check. (tied up) and it goes into reverse just time. in the lake the idle is a little low and it wants to stall some.. but I make due..

Undo the ropes and back away from the dock. go to put it in forward. the cable comes loose from the throttle/shift control box. DAMN...... not again. don't even get 20 ft off the dock and its broke. its trying to test me and see whether I want to play with boats or just stick with old cars...

so I strap the electric motor to it and pull it back to the dock, load it up and take it home. I will have to tear the control box apart again and see if I can tighten the shift cable tighter (not sure it will go tighter).


Now i have two questions.
1. Why wont the motor go above idle (throttle work) while the motor is in neutral (noticed it while testing it on Sat). can that be adjusted to allow some throttle so when I put it in gear it does not want to stall...)

2. does the motor have to be at idle (low throttle setting) to change from reverse to forward (or vice versa).

This is the first time I have been around an outboard and the previous owner did not have it in the water the 4 yrs he owned it nor know alot about it..(he took it on trade for a car he sold).

I will try again, but to many more of these adventures and I might leave the plugs out and see how she floats..

[Captain Jack]

Throttle stops & gearboxes

Now I have two questions.
1. Why wont the motor go above idle (throttle work) while the motor is in neutral (noticed it while testing it on Sat). can that be adjusted to allow some throttle so when I put it in gear it does not want to stall...)

Can't say for sure on Evinrude/Johnsons, but Mercury has a stop to limit throttle opening when in neutral.

2. does the motor have to be at idle (low throttle setting) to change from reverse to forward (or vice versa).

YES. Otherwise you take a real chance of tearing up the gearbox (lower unit). This is the same reason some cars have a "reverse lockout" that takes a conscious action by the driver to shift into reverse. You DON'T want to grab reverse by accident while rolling forward. Water is more "forgiving" than pavement, but the same basic principle applies.

The Cap'n

[Helmar]

Ken.
Its Mechanical. Whether its a boat or a car, don't let it whip you.

How hard did you have to push on it to shift it forward would be the question.
If you had to push Really hard, then there is a reason it broke again as something is not right.
Make sure it will shift easy at home..
And Yes, it has to be at a idle when shifting as so you don't dynamite the lower unit on most motors.
If its Not at the lower idle and you go to shift, it might not move and that is what happened to you, it pulled the cable out again.
Is that possible?

[Straycat]

Your first mistake was taking the wife! Never take the wife, or girlfriend, till all is well with the boat, not the way to impress her on mothers day! LOL Hope the next trip works out for ya, I have been there before, we all have. On the plus side you get to know your boat really well .........................

Stray, how do you handle the boat while parking the truck/trailer. do you just tie it up to the dock (assuming there is a dock) and leave the boat until you get back. I guess if it is not busy that would be fine but I would think if its busy folks would get angry for holding up loading...

but I understand your point. its much better if the shit happens when they are not around. My wife has spent very very little time around boats. has been on maybe 3 (one was my dad's 48 footer), another was his sisters boyfriends (when she was in high school) who had a speedboat (BBC powered) and her dad's aluminum outboard boat when she was a little kid.)

she is nervous, having the issues has not made for a good impression

[Straycat]

Let me paint you a picture, Diana stands at the dock with a cigarette in one hand and the dock rope in the other, O and her purse on her shoulder. I do everything else that it takes to get it to that point, reverse the above to get home. Makes it real interesting when the wind picks up!

[Helmar]

Stray, how do you handle the boat while parking the truck/trailer. do you just tie it up to the dock (assuming there is a dock) and leave the boat until you get back. I guess if it is not busy that would be fine but I would think if its busy folks would get angry for holding up loading...

but I understand your point. its much better if the shit happens when they are not around. My wife has spent very very little time around boats. has been on maybe 3 (one was my dad's 48 footer), another was his sisters boyfriends (when she was in high school) who had a speedboat (BBC powered) and her dad's aluminum outboard boat when she was a little kid.)

she is nervous, having the issues has not made for a good impression

One thing you can do to help set your mind at ease is to just go to a launch ramp and watch what people do and how they do it.

The way I understand the process is, while waiting in line, load your boat with whatever (life jackets, cooler, whatever) and put your bumpers on whatever side you are going to tie up on.
Undo everything but the front winch.
Back her down the ramp and before you get into winch over the water, undo the winch line and put a dock line on it.

If the dock or float is close, you can put a line on the back and a line on the front and have the good wife hold them while you back it down into the water.

If I am alone, I do the same but put my hip boots on and stop before the boat slides off the trailer, push it off and go to the float with it.
If its a long float and a line behind me, I then push the boat back out of the way so the next person can launch while I am parking the trailer.

If no float, I use my hip waders and push off the trailer and pull it along side on the beach or wherever I can tie up and hope no one is blasting by putting up a big wake (there will Always be Jerks!)

Before I start launching my own boat, I took a lunch and went to one of the popular boating ramps and just watched people.
Makes for a good laugh for sure

Helmar, I think it was a combination of things. First I am not sure I had the retaining screw as tight as I should have (or the cable pushed thru as much as it should). I also might have had the RPM up to much when I went from reverser to forward, (forward is what pulls on the cable).

I had the boat tied off and let it idle to warm up. then put it into reverser to make sure the cable was going to work right (it did just fine at home in forward and reverser with the motor running and hose connected to it.. it seems to idle better out of water).

I have put a strong turn to the screw and made sure the tip of the cable protruded beyond the screw pinch point.

there is a screw on the throttle/shift controller that is marked Throttle stop.. not sure how that works (does it limit the lower RPM setting and do you screw it in or out to limit. i wonder if it is not set high enough so when I pull the throttle back it wants to run rough and die (not enough fuel I guess).

On the motor there is a knurled plastic knob with the words Idle adjustment cast into the motor next to it, does this increase the idle, if so, do you turn clockwise or counterclockwise..


I know that is a lot of questions, but i do not know anyone that owns an outboard, let alone an vintage one. (all my boat buddies believe in large cubic V8 inboards that go 100 plus in a few seconds).

[Helmar]

Hi Ken.
I am one of those guys that have to have my hands on it to know more.
It does sound like the Idle was up too high and not allowing it to shift so it pulled the cable out.

Not sure on the throttle stop, would have to see it.

As far as the Idle adjustment screws, in "Most" cases, Clockwise it turning it in and turning it up.

I missed what motor you have other than Evinrude/Johnson and they are So many different ones its not funny.

If things are adjusted right, it should be Easy to shift from Forward to Reverse.

If this was my engine, first I would have or borrow a book on it. Then search the Internet for any information I could find on it, any issues and possibly go to iboats forum with questions about it too.

Might help it you post some pictures of the controls your using and the engine you have, then we can all ponder over it.

Set screw...

Ken- From your post it isn't exactly clear where/why you are having the cable issue, but make sure to check the cable end that I sent, it may have set screws under the flat head screw which functions as a locknut.

The throttle limit screw on the control box should be adjusted so the throttle cable will not be stretched when the carb hits the stop.

For idle- Have you cleaned/rebuilt your carbs, New plugs, new water pump impeller to make sure it isn't overheating? If it is really hard to shift, check the lower end lube, first for a sign of any oil at all, if any-then make sure it isn't milky...If yes you probably could use new seals down there, but you can make do by checking level each time out.

Use a modern 2-stroke oil (perferably synthetic) at 50-1 ratio, back in the day these old polluterudes recommended down to 25-1, fouling plugs and the earth in the process. Some of the newest oils smell like strawberry or Red Bull!

Let me provide some more details. Its a 1958 Johnson Super Seahorse 35.

Out of the water the motor runs great, idles good and shifts with no problems into forward and reverse. In the water it seems the drag of the water on the prop lowers the RPM's slightly (into a range that makes it run rougher at the same throttle position it runs good on land with just the hose connected to it) and i have to move the throttle up slightly. (I have a marking on where it likes it on land and now on water as a reference point). I got another spark plug and plan to replace it before going out next time. I am running an oil mixture of 1 to 24 as from readings I have done that is what an older Johnson is suppose to be (using T-3 ?? oil as recommended on here), maybe that should be 1 to 32 due to the newer better quality oils..???????????.

I think the biggest issue with the cable is not cranking it tight enough (putting a good hard twist to it) the first time or having it seated fully and I hope it will hold this time.

I have had to jerry rig the connection at the shifter as the original ball that attached at the engine lever side is missing, but I have a bolt with a nylon locking bolt to allow some play/movement to revent binding (do not think that is causing any issue).

I wish the boat had a tach so I could watch the RPM's and make sure I was in the proper range to shift it, will have to just play with it next time out and see where it is happy.

[Sammamish1]

As other members will tell you I have the wife trained to drive the car and trailer.

Here's how we do it. While in line we load the boat. I drive the car to the ramp and get in the boat. The wife backs it up into the water and unhooks the the trailer winch, while I start the motor. She backs up till the boat floats and I back the boat away. She pulls out the trailer, locks the car and jumps in the boat.

We simply reverse the process when loading.

She also backs the boat down our narrow driveway and makes the 90 degree turn at the bottom all in one try. She took over from me because I didn't do it well enough to suit her. Works for me!

It's all a matter of chosing the right wife in my opinion.

I still need the picture of this operation from whoever took it at Mason Lake in 2007 Nobody will believe me without it.

Hey Boones,

I think we have the same motor. 58 / 59 Johnson Super Seahorse 35? We've been told twice now, most recently from Norm Boddy (vintage motor mechanic) to use 50:1. I know it sounds strange but both guys double checked. Just thought I would pass that along although I am certainly not an expert Also if it helps, here is a qoute I found on a Johnson forum

"That 1958 35hp JOhnson incorporates "all" roller, needle, and ball bearings within its powerhead and as such can safely use the 50/1 fuel/oil mixture."

[Helmar]

Let me provide some more details. Its a 1958 Johnson Super Seahorse 35.

Out of the water the motor runs great, idles good and shifts with no problems into forward and reverse. In the water it seems the drag of the water on the prop lowers the RPM's slightly (into a range that makes it run rougher at the same throttle position it runs good on land with just the hose connected to it) and i have to move the throttle up slightly. (I have a marking on where it likes it on land and now on water as a reference point). I got another spark plug and plan to replace it before going out next time. I am running an oil mixture of 1 to 24 as from readings I have done that is what an older Johnson is suppose to be (using T-3 ?? oil as recommended on here), maybe that should be 1 to 32 due to the newer better quality oils..???????????.

I think the biggest issue with the cable is not cranking it tight enough (putting a good hard twist to it) the first time or having it seated fully and I hope it will hold this time.

I have had to jerry rig the connection at the shifter as the original ball that attached at the engine lever side is missing, but I have a bolt with a nylon locking bolt to allow some play/movement to revent binding (do not think that is causing any issue).

I wish the boat had a tach so I could watch the RPM's and make sure I was in the proper range to shift it, will have to just play with it next time out and see where it is happy.

Ken, if you can make it to the Alder Lake Event, I can take a look at it for you. I am sure others that know these motors and controls will be happy to help too.

[pathfinderz1]

your cable ends

On your cable ends in the control box if you have the kind that a screw on both sides you tighten up on screw just enough to make a slite kink in the cable and then tighten out the other screw. Then will never come out that way. Like most it's plastic so dont go nuts on tighting.
Mike